Not quite true ...
 

Just for your info ... THERE ARE NO AWA FOs PERIOD, with any amount of seniority, that are flying a USAir jet ... Its one of the FEW protections that our transition agreement provided to BOTH pilot groups. :rolleyes:

And I don't think there are any 20 year USAir guys on the street EITHER ... :rolleyes:

As far as your experiences with former EAL pilots and the ALPA leadership, SO TRUE ... :cool:

Later, CC

Just the facts man ....

Ultimately....
 

People will almost always make decisions in their own best interests. We can preach about solidarity and the union and rah! rah! rah! until we are blue in the face. It doesn't matter. There is no inherint right for unions to exist in airlines. And frankly, I'm not sure that surrendering 2% of my income isn't just another power and money grab by another group looking out for itself.

That being said, I have a lot to learn and know it. So I will try to keep an open mind, and like you, won't sit here and dehumanize other people for having what seems to be outright audacity for working non-union.

It is actually possible to make decisions that are in the best interests of the group as a whole, including yourself in the long run. The so called "win-Win" scenario... For this to work there has to some degree of mutual trust that no is going to take a short-term advantage for himself to the detriment of the group. There also has to be a reasonable expectation that the Win-Win scenario will pan out in the long run...this is a tough issue today.

There are always a few despicable individuals who will serve their own immediate desires without any regard for their fellows. Sometimes these folks get lucky and come out on top in the long run...sometimes crime does pay, unfortunate but true. But usually we catch them sooner or later, and get a tall tree and a short rope...:eek:

I have found that one of the most reliable ways to spot a true blue scumbag, regardless of how high his social status or how personable or polished he is, is to look for the individual who just assumes that everyone will scew everyone else. He is incapable of trusting anyone because deep inside he knows he himself is totally untrustworthy and assumes that everyone else must be too! Try it, it works.

Sound. I have heard the same from my father many years ago. He said to watch out for asskissers and back-stabbers before I boarded the bus for Lackland AFB, Tx and boot camp...He was right - and Patton said it best - listen to what people are most cinical about, you'll know what they most lack in their life...

-LAFF

[QUOTE=EK Birdcage]Just my 2 cents, and I AM a 121 large airplane pilot..

If I were a ALPA card carrying TWA pilot who got put on the street with no job by AMR and went to one of these alter-egos to feed my family, am I a scab..?

If I were a ALPA card carrying USAir pilot who got put on the street after 20 years so that an America West pilot with 2 years (also ALPA) senority could fly my jet, and went to an alter-ego to feed my family, am I a scab?

QUOTE]
In a word... yes... But I still would not have the right to judge you and your decision to join that company!! -BCD

Amen to that! Just because someone doesn't care about the union doesn't make them a bad person. What I wonder is why does an organiziation thats supposed to be there to SERVE US with OUR MONEY get so angry anytime they are questioned? We pay them the dues so they work for us. We do not work for the unions and they can't tell us how to run our lives. BTW there will be very few if any consequences for GJ/Freedom pilots besides denied jumpseats. Freedom pilots can just say they worked for Mesa and no one will ever know. Most people at comair don't even know or care who GJ is. To most its just another startup airline out of many.

I can agree and disagree with a lot of this here. I understand that people have families to feed, but this is real simple:

You do not vote in a new contract unless it is over the pay of the highest airline in your "section".(Major, Regional, LCC, Cargo, etc.)

The Comair pilots agreed to a pay freeze and are currently negotiating small concessions because all of the other airlines who signed in new contracts after Comair(2001) all must have had no backbone, because nobody even came close.

So if your pilot group ratified a substandard contract and I/We want to label you a SCAB, deal with it. If you fly 70 seat jets for 50 seat pay....,

I walked by my father's side when United stuck. I helped out the Comair guys and gals when they struck. Since this is the UNITED STATES of AMERICA and I like to exercise the freedoms that I have, I will call you whatever I want and judge you anyway I see fit.

It isn't any airlines job to make your life any easier. If they vote in a contract they think is fair and reasonable then thats that. No whining no nothing. This raising the bar concept is another old union concept that needs to go the way of the dinosaur. ALPO really needs to overhaul their entire line of thinking. They have failed us all and its time to start from scratch. The bottom line though is that no where in any ALPA law does it say every contract has to be higher than the last. Its this type of thinking that got us all in trouble to begin with. Why do you think so many people are taking paycuts? Too many sweetheart deals were signed in the 90s. Now this should be a lesson to all that we need to focus on making fair and equitable deals for all. Arbitration is the way to go for this. That way no more strikes to try and break the bank. Fair deals for all. This is a good start in creating a new vision for the future. Where is ALPA trying to come up with fresh new ideas? I don't see them even trying. In fact they use the same old tired quotes. YOU are the union, your only as good as your MEC, blah blah blah those are all copouts. ALPA is management and they should be held to the same standard as any other managers.

WOW... DumbAngelo is reincarnated on this board, after getting BANNED from Flightinfo... Anyone wanna take odds as to how long an uneducated, sh@t stirrer like this genius will take until he gets booted from here???? I do agree with his dislike of ALPA, though... Other than that, his stand point is one of simple management mentality...

Worked for years as a card carrying mech at an extinct dinasaur. Now I'm among the climbing ranks of pilots, heading back up the ladder to whence I came. Developing solidarity with mechanics and pilots is like trying to herd cats. It aint gonna happen. That's not to say the fight isn't worthy. In fact, it's what keeps things from getting worse.