Union?
 

Please dont flame me. I am not trying or wanting to start a fight or anything like that. I know that even asking this question is about as inflamatory as discussing religion or politics....but I cant learn without asking.

I'm from Texas. I dont KNOW much about unions. I have HEARD a variety of tales from a variety of perspectives.

Can someone tell me what unions DO?

What are the costs / benefits?

What are the penalties?

I understand that there is a black list if you disagree with the union leaders. What does that do to you?

Are you required to join a union?

Are ya treated like a red-headed step-child if ya dont?

Thanks for your help. I know this sounds like an ignorant question. But the whole union concept is pretty alien to me, and I cant understand unless I ask.

Safe skies, all.

You have a contract to work under if you have a union. You're left at the whims of management if you're not organized.

Unions provide a method for employees to bargain collectively for their compensation and working conditions, they also serve to enforce that bargain through the contract.
Cost runs about 1.5-3% of salary.

Most unionized jobs require you to join.

People disagree with union leaders all the time, most important issues are voted on by the membership to resolve these disagreements.

Some employers offer a contract instead of a union, many foreign airlines do this,so you are not working without a contract or at the whims of the employer.

Like anything else, there are good unions and not so good, just as some employment contracts are better than others. The concept is best when members take an active and well-informed role in the operation.

When I was at a non-union, DC-8 cargo carrier, we had the following things happen:

Homebasing was changed to a Miami base with two weeks notice.

Our 60 hour guarantee was eliminated with the same two weeks notice. We were then only paid on the basis of hard time.

Those who seemed to write up the planes were given fewer flight assignments. Those who would do anything were given more.

We were told that if we didn't like it, that we were free to give notice. Many captains (they were given advanced notice) walked. Others, myself included, continued to fly until we could find other employment.

Be careful about wishing for things. They may come true.

It depends on which union and which leaders you're talking about. Some welcome the free exchange of ideas, and protect every provision of the contract and every member's job with equal vigor. Others are little more than high-fallutin' "social clubs" that serve little practical purpose other than to sign you up for an expensive magazine subscription and give you a cute little pin to stick on your lapel. Unfortunately (or fortunately, if you're management) "Darwinism" seems to impact the latter-type unions more severely than the former-type. They don't last long, or if they do, they're effectively neutered, and become "porch dogs"

"What if you disagree with union leaders?"

Go rent the movie "Serpico"

Frank Serpico knocking on armed, crack-dealer's door = Union member who disagreed with union leadership.

Five guy's picking noses, looking other way pretending not to see while Frank Serpico knocks = Union leadership.


The effectiveness of a union really depends on the integrity and resolve of it's leaders, and frankly, I'm not convinced that pilots in general are particularly adept at choosing theirs.

So to sum up Whistlin' "pilots are too dumb to elect effective/honest leadership". Okay, Whistlin, list all the airlines with superior play, benefits, and work rules to union airlines.

I'll check back in a couple days to review your list :rolleyes:

No can do. The question was not whether union carriers have better pay and benefits. They DO. My comment was made in reference to his question about internal squabbles and cliques within a union, and how it affects that unions ability to function as a union. IMHO, it compromises them significantly.

In my opinion, in the absence of any direct or well-defined threat, we tend to elect popular leaders, rather than effective ones. That's true of private citizens voting in general elections as well.

Just my $.02