Jetblue close to alpa vote
05-07-2011, 03:32 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
That seems a bit misleading to me. At Delta, I'm told we pay about $30 million annually in dues. About $21 million of it goes to ALPA National and $9 million of it directly supports the Delta pilots. I'm thinking you can hire a heck of a lot of top notch experts for $21 million dollars.
USAPA has the same dues rate as ALPA and they are operating at a deficit this year. So far, the Delta MEC is under budget and they have added almost $1 million to their savings account (SMRA).
05-07-2011, 04:00 PM
#12
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
I wonder how many times the truth will have to be told before this lie finally dies. Of the dues dollars that are not directly controlled by the MEC a significant portion pays for office space, lawyers, IT, and many other items. To say only $9 million goes to Delta pilots is just wrong. It has been corrected many times in public, yet some want to continue to lie.
USAPA has the same dues rate as ALPA and they are operating at a deficit this year. So far, the Delta MEC is under budget and they have added almost $1 million to their savings account (SMRA).
USAPA has the same dues rate as ALPA and they are operating at a deficit this year. So far, the Delta MEC is under budget and they have added almost $1 million to their savings account (SMRA).
Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
That seems a bit misleading to me. At Delta, I'm told we pay about $30 million annually in dues. About $21 million of it goes to ALPA National and $9 million of it directly supports the Delta pilots. I'm thinking you can hire a heck of a lot of top notch experts for $21 million dollars.
05-07-2011, 04:02 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
I will also point out that this week a handful of Delta pilots and FedEx pilots were on the Hill meeting with Senate staffers on three issues related to the FAA Reauthorization Bill. Those were the Shuster Amendment (similar to the Inhofe admendment which would have created a cutoff of some carriers, the carriage of lithium batteries on airlines, and UAS (UAVs) integration into the National Aerospace system.
What was fascinating to me was how willing the staffers were to make appointments with these pilots (of which I was one...) to discuss safety issues. Love ALPA or hate it, when it comes to safety and aerospace issues we have both access and credibility on these issues.
I have been a vocal critic of ALPA at times both locally and nationally, but also realized that diving in would be better than throwing rocks from the outside. What I will say is that I never met another airline pilot, nor airline group, up on the Hill making a case for our positions. I did see and hear of others from the airline industry (ATA) and the battery and electronic companies up there making their cases.
We really have only a couple of choices. You can get onboard with the organization that is doing the lion's share of work on these issues, or you can snipe about the things that didn't go your way in the past. I am not here to carry anyone's water for past issues, but I will say that the folks I met were busting their respective butts to make our case loud and clear. As of Friday I think we had met with about 80 of 100 senator's staffs, and I was very pleased to find most of them not only willing to meet with us but actually eager to talk to "real pilots" on these issues.
Is it cheap to run a Washington office? I grimaced when I saw my hotel bill. However, I can honestly say that the cost of not having a few folks up there working hard on these issues is even more expensive. We are on the cusp of a new set of flight time/duty time rules, and about to make some significant improvements in the safe carriage of hazardous cargo. I am quite confident none of this would have happened without ALPA, and also confident that while a lot of other unions have done some great work for their pilots the cache and reputation that ALPA has made--especially in regards to safety--are what opened the door for us to have these discussions.
Will it be perfect? Never. Does it beat any available alternative? Yes...by a healthy margin.
What was fascinating to me was how willing the staffers were to make appointments with these pilots (of which I was one...) to discuss safety issues. Love ALPA or hate it, when it comes to safety and aerospace issues we have both access and credibility on these issues.
I have been a vocal critic of ALPA at times both locally and nationally, but also realized that diving in would be better than throwing rocks from the outside. What I will say is that I never met another airline pilot, nor airline group, up on the Hill making a case for our positions. I did see and hear of others from the airline industry (ATA) and the battery and electronic companies up there making their cases.
We really have only a couple of choices. You can get onboard with the organization that is doing the lion's share of work on these issues, or you can snipe about the things that didn't go your way in the past. I am not here to carry anyone's water for past issues, but I will say that the folks I met were busting their respective butts to make our case loud and clear. As of Friday I think we had met with about 80 of 100 senator's staffs, and I was very pleased to find most of them not only willing to meet with us but actually eager to talk to "real pilots" on these issues.
Is it cheap to run a Washington office? I grimaced when I saw my hotel bill. However, I can honestly say that the cost of not having a few folks up there working hard on these issues is even more expensive. We are on the cusp of a new set of flight time/duty time rules, and about to make some significant improvements in the safe carriage of hazardous cargo. I am quite confident none of this would have happened without ALPA, and also confident that while a lot of other unions have done some great work for their pilots the cache and reputation that ALPA has made--especially in regards to safety--are what opened the door for us to have these discussions.
Will it be perfect? Never. Does it beat any available alternative? Yes...by a healthy margin.
05-07-2011, 04:14 PM
#14
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by Albief15
I will also point out that this week a handful of Delta pilots and FedEx pilots were on the Hill meeting with Senate staffers on three issues related to the FAA Reauthorization Bill. Those were the Shuster Amendment (similar to the Inhofe admendment which would have created a cutoff of some carriers, the carriage of lithium batteries on airlines, and UAS (UAVs) integration into the National Aerospace system.
What was fascinating to me was how willing the staffers were to make appointments with these pilots (of which I was one...) to discuss safety issues. Love ALPA or hate it, when it comes to safety and aerospace issues we have both access and credibility on these issues.
I have been a vocal critic of ALPA at times both locally and nationally, but also realized that diving in would be better than throwing rocks from the outside. What I will say is that I never met another airline pilot, nor airline group, up on the Hill making a case for our positions. I did see and hear of others from the airline industry (ATA) and the battery and electronic companies up there making their cases.
We really have only a couple of choices. You can get onboard with the organization that is doing the lion's share of work on these issues, or you can snipe about the things that didn't go your way in the past. I am not here to carry anyone's water for past issues, but I will say that the folks I met were busting their respective butts to make our case loud and clear. As of Friday I think we had met with about 80 of 100 senator's staffs, and I was very pleased to find most of them not only willing to meet with us but actually eager to talk to "real pilots" on these issues.
Is it cheap to run a Washington office? I grimaced when I saw my hotel bill. However, I can honestly say that the cost of not having a few folks up there working hard on these issues is even more expensive. We are on the cusp of a new set of flight time/duty time rules, and about to make some significant improvements in the safe carriage of hazardous cargo. I am quite confident none of this would have happened without ALPA, and also confident that while a lot of other unions have done some great work for their pilots the cache and reputation that ALPA has made--especially in regards to safety--are what opened the door for us to have these discussions.
Will it be perfect? Never. Does it beat any available alternative? Yes...by a healthy margin.
What was fascinating to me was how willing the staffers were to make appointments with these pilots (of which I was one...) to discuss safety issues. Love ALPA or hate it, when it comes to safety and aerospace issues we have both access and credibility on these issues.
I have been a vocal critic of ALPA at times both locally and nationally, but also realized that diving in would be better than throwing rocks from the outside. What I will say is that I never met another airline pilot, nor airline group, up on the Hill making a case for our positions. I did see and hear of others from the airline industry (ATA) and the battery and electronic companies up there making their cases.
We really have only a couple of choices. You can get onboard with the organization that is doing the lion's share of work on these issues, or you can snipe about the things that didn't go your way in the past. I am not here to carry anyone's water for past issues, but I will say that the folks I met were busting their respective butts to make our case loud and clear. As of Friday I think we had met with about 80 of 100 senator's staffs, and I was very pleased to find most of them not only willing to meet with us but actually eager to talk to "real pilots" on these issues.
Is it cheap to run a Washington office? I grimaced when I saw my hotel bill. However, I can honestly say that the cost of not having a few folks up there working hard on these issues is even more expensive. We are on the cusp of a new set of flight time/duty time rules, and about to make some significant improvements in the safe carriage of hazardous cargo. I am quite confident none of this would have happened without ALPA, and also confident that while a lot of other unions have done some great work for their pilots the cache and reputation that ALPA has made--especially in regards to safety--are what opened the door for us to have these discussions.
Will it be perfect? Never. Does it beat any available alternative? Yes...by a healthy margin.
And as far as the legislative stuff and ALPA's gravitas... Well, imagine if FedEx, Delta, UAL/CAL all left ALPA and joined with the other airlines that are current members of CAPA. I don't think it would be very long at all before CAPA would be doing the lion's share of this legislative work and have very significant credibility, while ALPA's credibility (mainly a regional airline pilot's union) would be significantly diminished. Anyway, I know... all easier said than done. But I don't see anything about ALPA that is completely irreplaceable... and I see many things (the most important things) that I would actually like to see replaced. Just my opinion...
05-07-2011, 04:16 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 258
Something to consider, APA is the strongest and largest independent union in the business. They have been doing so since 1963. APA has some significant financial issues and hasn’t been successful in negotiating their current contract. Currently APA has hired ALPA via a services agreement to negotiate their contract. That means there are ALPA attorneys/professional negotiators and ALPA Economic and Financial analyst (EF&A) and other ALPA staffers at the APA negotiating table. If APA can’t negotiate this contract on their own, without ALPA’s assistance that’s something to think about.
05-07-2011, 04:18 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,227
Originally Posted by Albief15
I will also point out that this week a handful of Delta pilots and FedEx pilots were on the Hill meeting with Senate staffers on three issues related to the FAA Reauthorization Bill. Those were the Shuster Amendment (similar to the Inhofe admendment which would have created a cutoff of some carriers, the carriage of lithium batteries on airlines, and UAS (UAVs) integration into the National Aerospace system.
What was fascinating to me was how willing the staffers were to make appointments with these pilots (of which I was one...) to discuss safety issues. Love ALPA or hate it, when it comes to safety and aerospace issues we have both access and credibility on these issues.
I have been a vocal critic of ALPA at times both locally and nationally, but also realized that diving in would be better than throwing rocks from the outside. What I will say is that I never met another airline pilot, nor airline group, up on the Hill making a case for our positions. I did see and hear of others from the airline industry (ATA) and the battery and electronic companies up there making their cases.
We really have only a couple of choices. You can get onboard with the organization that is doing the lion's share of work on these issues, or you can snipe about the things that didn't go your way in the past. I am not here to carry anyone's water for past issues, but I will say that the folks I met were busting their respective butts to make our case loud and clear. As of Friday I think we had met with about 80 of 100 senator's staffs, and I was very pleased to find most of them not only willing to meet with us but actually eager to talk to "real pilots" on these issues.
Is it cheap to run a Washington office? I grimaced when I saw my hotel bill. However, I can honestly say that the cost of not having a few folks up there working hard on these issues is even more expensive. We are on the cusp of a new set of flight time/duty time rules, and about to make some significant improvements in the safe carriage of hazardous cargo. I am quite confident none of this would have happened without ALPA, and also confident that while a lot of other unions have done some great work for their pilots the cache and reputation that ALPA has made--especially in regards to safety--are what opened the door for us to have these discussions.
Will it be perfect? Never. Does it beat any available alternative? Yes...by a healthy margin.
What was fascinating to me was how willing the staffers were to make appointments with these pilots (of which I was one...) to discuss safety issues. Love ALPA or hate it, when it comes to safety and aerospace issues we have both access and credibility on these issues.
I have been a vocal critic of ALPA at times both locally and nationally, but also realized that diving in would be better than throwing rocks from the outside. What I will say is that I never met another airline pilot, nor airline group, up on the Hill making a case for our positions. I did see and hear of others from the airline industry (ATA) and the battery and electronic companies up there making their cases.
We really have only a couple of choices. You can get onboard with the organization that is doing the lion's share of work on these issues, or you can snipe about the things that didn't go your way in the past. I am not here to carry anyone's water for past issues, but I will say that the folks I met were busting their respective butts to make our case loud and clear. As of Friday I think we had met with about 80 of 100 senator's staffs, and I was very pleased to find most of them not only willing to meet with us but actually eager to talk to "real pilots" on these issues.
Is it cheap to run a Washington office? I grimaced when I saw my hotel bill. However, I can honestly say that the cost of not having a few folks up there working hard on these issues is even more expensive. We are on the cusp of a new set of flight time/duty time rules, and about to make some significant improvements in the safe carriage of hazardous cargo. I am quite confident none of this would have happened without ALPA, and also confident that while a lot of other unions have done some great work for their pilots the cache and reputation that ALPA has made--especially in regards to safety--are what opened the door for us to have these discussions.
Will it be perfect? Never. Does it beat any available alternative? Yes...by a healthy margin.
05-07-2011, 04:34 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 258
Originally Posted by PilotFrog
Just wondering if the Teamsters were there. Don't they represent UPS? Seems to me they would be the most interested in the Li battery issues. I think this has the potential to be very serious as the move to more and more battery/electronics in our lives. Imagine a plane full of VOLT batteries and one goes hot and chain reacts with the rest? I hear there is a move for more carbon in the batteries to improve the output and charge, but the problem they are having is it is explosive right now.
05-07-2011, 04:45 PM
#18
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by Albief15
I will also point out that this week a handful of Delta pilots and FedEx pilots were on the Hill meeting with Senate staffers on three issues related to the FAA Reauthorization Bill. Those were the Shuster Amendment (similar to the Inhofe admendment which would have created a cutoff of some carriers, the carriage of lithium batteries on airlines, and UAS (UAVs) integration into the National Aerospace system.
What was fascinating to me was how willing the staffers were to make appointments with these pilots (of which I was one...) to discuss safety issues. Love ALPA or hate it, when it comes to safety and aerospace issues we have both access and credibility on these issues.
I have been a vocal critic of ALPA at times both locally and nationally, but also realized that diving in would be better than throwing rocks from the outside. What I will say is that I never met another airline pilot, nor airline group, up on the Hill making a case for our positions. I did see and hear of others from the airline industry (ATA) and the battery and electronic companies up there making their cases.
We really have only a couple of choices. You can get onboard with the organization that is doing the lion's share of work on these issues, or you can snipe about the things that didn't go your way in the past. I am not here to carry anyone's water for past issues, but I will say that the folks I met were busting their respective butts to make our case loud and clear. As of Friday I think we had met with about 80 of 100 senator's staffs, and I was very pleased to find most of them not only willing to meet with us but actually eager to talk to "real pilots" on these issues.
Is it cheap to run a Washington office? I grimaced when I saw my hotel bill. However, I can honestly say that the cost of not having a few folks up there working hard on these issues is even more expensive. We are on the cusp of a new set of flight time/duty time rules, and about to make some significant improvements in the safe carriage of hazardous cargo. I am quite confident none of this would have happened without ALPA, and also confident that while a lot of other unions have done some great work for their pilots the cache and reputation that ALPA has made--especially in regards to safety--are what opened the door for us to have these discussions.
Will it be perfect? Never. Does it beat any available alternative? Yes...by a healthy margin.
What was fascinating to me was how willing the staffers were to make appointments with these pilots (of which I was one...) to discuss safety issues. Love ALPA or hate it, when it comes to safety and aerospace issues we have both access and credibility on these issues.
I have been a vocal critic of ALPA at times both locally and nationally, but also realized that diving in would be better than throwing rocks from the outside. What I will say is that I never met another airline pilot, nor airline group, up on the Hill making a case for our positions. I did see and hear of others from the airline industry (ATA) and the battery and electronic companies up there making their cases.
We really have only a couple of choices. You can get onboard with the organization that is doing the lion's share of work on these issues, or you can snipe about the things that didn't go your way in the past. I am not here to carry anyone's water for past issues, but I will say that the folks I met were busting their respective butts to make our case loud and clear. As of Friday I think we had met with about 80 of 100 senator's staffs, and I was very pleased to find most of them not only willing to meet with us but actually eager to talk to "real pilots" on these issues.
Is it cheap to run a Washington office? I grimaced when I saw my hotel bill. However, I can honestly say that the cost of not having a few folks up there working hard on these issues is even more expensive. We are on the cusp of a new set of flight time/duty time rules, and about to make some significant improvements in the safe carriage of hazardous cargo. I am quite confident none of this would have happened without ALPA, and also confident that while a lot of other unions have done some great work for their pilots the cache and reputation that ALPA has made--especially in regards to safety--are what opened the door for us to have these discussions.
Will it be perfect? Never. Does it beat any available alternative? Yes...by a healthy margin.
05-07-2011, 04:53 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,235
Originally Posted by PilotFrog
Just wondering if the Teamsters were there. Don't they represent UPS? Seems to me they would be the most interested in the Li battery issues. I think this has the potential to be very serious as the move to more and more battery/electronics in our lives. Imagine a plane full of VOLT batteries and one goes hot and chain reacts with the rest? I hear there is a move for more carbon in the batteries to improve the output and charge, but the problem they are having is it is explosive right now.
We do work with the Teamsters on issues of mutual concern and we have and will continue to refuse to cross picket lines , its in our contract that we don't ,as it is with the Teamsters.
05-07-2011, 05:14 PM
#20
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r
DAL88
You folks at Delta have 12,300 Pilots who are compensated on average Higher than your bretheren at Jet blue. You have a Contract and you have Agency Shop and you have had a Union on Property for 35 plus years.
The JB Pilots only number 2300. They won't come close to 10 million in Dues.
In fact being very optimistic that 100% of the JB pilots pay dues from day 1
(which is extremely unlikely) I estimate they would bring in approx 5 million
annually. Ask your MEC how much your Contract 2000 cost to negotiate.
Don't forget the your benefits from your SMRA Account and the Contingnecy Fund. A start up independent has none of that.
5 Million annually won't get you much in the way of an office, professional Staff and all the Legal help required, as well as all the cost of negotiations. I say that from first hand experience.
The JB pilots would be better off with economically ALPA than an independent
Unless they are willing to pay 4% initially over ALPA's 1.95%.
You folks at Delta have 12,300 Pilots who are compensated on average Higher than your bretheren at Jet blue. You have a Contract and you have Agency Shop and you have had a Union on Property for 35 plus years.
The JB Pilots only number 2300. They won't come close to 10 million in Dues.
In fact being very optimistic that 100% of the JB pilots pay dues from day 1
(which is extremely unlikely) I estimate they would bring in approx 5 million
annually. Ask your MEC how much your Contract 2000 cost to negotiate.
Don't forget the your benefits from your SMRA Account and the Contingnecy Fund. A start up independent has none of that.
5 Million annually won't get you much in the way of an office, professional Staff and all the Legal help required, as well as all the cost of negotiations. I say that from first hand experience.
The JB pilots would be better off with economically ALPA than an independent
Unless they are willing to pay 4% initially over ALPA's 1.95%.
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