Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-07-2011, 11:28 AM   #1  
Line Holder
Thread Starter
 
superduck's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: A320, Left
Posts: 31
Default Jetblue close to alpa vote

Real close. All you ALPA guys please talk to your jetBlue jumpseaters.
superduck is offline  
Old 05-07-2011, 12:49 PM   #2  
Banned
 
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,331
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by superduck View Post
Real close. All you ALPA guys please talk to your jetBlue jumpseaters.


Yes.......make sure they know what a mistake they'd be making supporting an economically bloated and ineffective bargaining representative. JB pilots no-doubt need recognized representation, but in-house/independent would be better then funneling more cash into that worthless outfit.

Better yet, talk to a former TWA or Midwest Express pilot.
eaglefly is offline  
Old 05-07-2011, 01:37 PM   #3  
Gets Weekends Off
 
RedeyeAV8r's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,795
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglefly View Post


Yes.......make sure they know what a mistake they'd be making supporting an economically bloated and ineffective bargaining representative. JB pilots no-doubt need recognized representation, but in-house/independent would be better then funneling more cash into that worthless outfit.
Better yet, talk to a former TWA or Midwest Express pilot.
Or talk to a FedEx guy who went through NO Union, then ALPA, Then Independent, and then ALPA again.

I've said it before, ALPA has it's warts no question, just like every organization.
That being said, JB pilots would be more economically ahead voting in ALPA than trying to go it alone. ALPA will be far cheaper than an in house.

It cost a great deal of money starting up an In house Union where there is no Current Contract and "NO" Agency shop clause (i.e where dues are strictly voluntary not mandatory) especially with a small Pilot group. You will initially have 30% or more that won't pay dues or Pilots will quit paying at the drop of a hat because something doesn't go their way.... Been there and done that. We lost 5 years under and ineffective independent Union. From one whose has been there, Try funding all the start up costs of a Union office, Staff, Trip loss for Leadership/ Negotiating Committee members as well as $1000/hr Fees for Labor lawyers, ERISA lawyers and other experts. It gets expensive real quick.
When you join ALPA you get all this for free as part of your dues.

JB guys need to get a Union and a contract quickly for all your long term protection.
Merger-acquisition, bankruptcy, Fracture sell off etc. I realize many JB pilots probably have a "History" with ALPA. Many of us at FedEx did also. We finally realized it was the lesser of three evils (No Union, Independent or National). We wisely chose ALPA again, although we were slow learners. but even Freight dawgs can learn from past mistakes.

Good luck guys/gals from JB.

Last edited by RedeyeAV8r; 05-07-2011 at 01:49 PM.
RedeyeAV8r is offline  
Old 05-07-2011, 01:40 PM   #4  
Recommend Retention
 
LifeNtheFstLne's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Bigfoot
Posts: 1,055
Default

All my friends with equivalent years of service at Blue enjoy better pay, q.o.l., and culture than I have at Continental. Tell me again what they stand to gain with ALPA, who has demonstrated time and again that their biggest customer is now the regional airlines??? I hope I do have someone on the j/s. We can compare W-2s, or if they prefer - flight attendants. Either way, I lose. - Continental guy
LifeNtheFstLne is offline  
Old 05-07-2011, 01:42 PM   #5  
Gets Weekends Off
 
iahflyr's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,147
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeNtheFstLne View Post
All my friends with equivalent years of service at Blue enjoy better pay, q.o.l., and culture than I have at Continental. Tell me again what they stand to gain with ALPA, who has demonstrated time and again that their biggest customer is now the regional airlines??? I hope I do have someone on the j/s. We can compare W-2s, or if they prefer - flight attendants. Either way, I lose. - Continental guy

I had the same experience when I was at Skywest and I have the same experience at Continental. I really hope this doesn't happen.
iahflyr is offline  
Old 05-07-2011, 01:57 PM   #6  
At home on the maddog!
 
DAL 88 Driver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r View Post
Try funding all the start up costs of a Union office, Staff, Trip loss for Leadership/ Negotiating Committee members as well as $1000/hr Fees for Labor lawyers, ERISA lawyers and other experts. It gets expensive real quick.
When you join ALPA you get all this for free as part of your dues.
That seems a bit misleading to me. At Delta, I'm told we pay about $30 million annually in dues. About $21 million of it goes to ALPA National and $9 million of it directly supports the Delta pilots. I'm thinking you can hire a heck of a lot of top notch experts for $21 million dollars.
DAL 88 Driver is offline  
Old 05-07-2011, 02:07 PM   #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
buddies8's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,336
Default

thats has always been my point. And they work solely for you or face disbarment.
buddies8 is offline  
Old 05-07-2011, 02:16 PM   #8  
Gets Weekends Off
 
RedeyeAV8r's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,795
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver View Post
That seems a bit misleading to me. At Delta, I'm told we pay about $30 million annually in dues. About $21 million of it goes to ALPA National and $9 million of it directly supports the Delta pilots. I'm thinking you can hire a heck of a lot of top notch experts for $21 million dollars.

DAL88

You folks at Delta have 12,300 Pilots who are compensated on average Higher than your bretheren at Jet blue. You have a Contract and you have Agency Shop and you have had a Union on Property for 35 plus years.

The JB Pilots only number 2300. They won't come close to 10 million in Dues.
In fact being very optimistic that 100% of the JB pilots pay dues from day 1
(which is extremely unlikely) I estimate they would bring in approx 5 million
annually. Ask your MEC how much your Contract 2000 cost to negotiate.

Don't forget the your benefits from your SMRA Account and the Contingnecy Fund. A start up independent has none of that.

5 Million annually won't get you much in the way of an office, professional Staff and all the Legal help required, as well as all the cost of negotiations. I say that from first hand experience.


The JB pilots would be better off with economically ALPA than an independent
Unless they are willing to pay 4% initially over ALPA's 1.95%.
RedeyeAV8r is offline  
Old 05-07-2011, 02:20 PM   #9  
Gets Weekends Off
 
jayray2's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 691
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r View Post
When you join ALPA you get all this for free as part of your dues.
I guess I was the only one that found this funny. It is like saying you get a free house to live in by paying your mortgage.
jayray2 is offline  
Old 05-07-2011, 02:26 PM   #10  
Gets Weekends Off
 
RedeyeAV8r's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,795
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayray2 View Post
I guess I was the only one that found this funny. It is like saying you get a free house to live in by paying your mortgage.
It wasn't meant to sound funny.

As an Independent you would not get all this included in your dues. It would cost you extra. or in otherwords Independent dues would be more % than ALPA's 1.95%

As an Independent Union

You would have to hire a RLA Labor Attorney
You would have to hire an IN House Attorney.
You would have to Hire an Erisa Attorney
You would have to hire a Professional PR firm.
You would have to Rent and STAFF a professional office with
Desks, Furniture,Computers, Copiers, Secretaries and Paralegals.

You will have to pay for Full time Trip removal to you elected leadership and Key Committee members.

Believe me it adds up. Smaller Pilot groups are $$ ahead with ALPA.
RedeyeAV8r is offline  
 
 
 

 
Post Reply
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What? ALPA Staff members are UNIONIZED??? Pinchanickled Union Talk 10 11-29-2010 04:46 PM
What the hell is ALPA Leadership thinking? ATCsaidDoWhat Union Talk 0 09-30-2010 11:49 AM
ALPA and Pseudo-Science on FTDT PEACH Union Talk 8 03-30-2010 08:40 AM
SKYWEST to Vote on ALPA Ellen Regional 193 09-21-2007 06:11 PM
A view of Jet Blue mike734 JetBlue 8 02-14-2006 11:07 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:05 PM.