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-   -   TWA Pilots vs. ALPA in DFR suit (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/union-talk/60671-twa-pilots-vs-alpa-dfr-suit.html)

Karnak 07-14-2011 09:03 AM

In a related story, OJ found "not guilty" of murder...

johnso29 07-14-2011 11:03 AM


Originally Posted by Karnak (Post 1022502)
In a related story, OJ found "not guilty" of murder...

I don't pay OJ to protect and enhance my career, and increase my QOL.

thruthemurk 07-14-2011 11:26 AM

Thank God Casey Anthony is innocent!!

For those of you that think professional pilots would be better off without ALPA (warts and all), and think that we operate in a level playing field with the Air Transport Association (union of managements), I just wonder what row your seat is in?

amcflyboy 07-14-2011 11:55 AM


Originally Posted by Karnak (Post 1022343)
A jury found for the plaintiffs.

Meh. I watched the OJ verdict too.

So you're saying ALPA is just as guilty as OJ being not guilty?:eek:

Sniper 07-14-2011 12:55 PM


Originally Posted by Wasatch Phantom (Post 1022339)
Could you give me the "Cliff Notes" version of the lawsuit?

Here's the short and sweet:
  1. ALPA convinced/coerced the TWA MEC to give up Allegheny Mohawk rights.
  2. In exchange, American agreed to use its "reasonable best efforts" to integrate the TWA pilots.
  3. American and APA agreed on the integration of the TWA pilots before the TWA MEC met with the APA to discuss the integration.
  4. ALPA knew the agreement had already been made, but concealed this information from the TWA MEC.
  5. American paid for a 'facilitator' in these discussions b/t the TWA MEC and the APA. Paying for the facilitator was the only thing American did to use its "reasonable best efforts" to integrate the TWA pilots.
  6. The integration was revealed.
  7. The TWA MEC tried to file an injunction to block the integration with their ALPA attorney.
  8. ALPA barred the attorney from filing.
  9. TWA MEC tried to arbitrate the dispute. ALPA controlled the arbitration process to ensure a decision against the TWA pilots.
  10. APA was in debt b/c APA pilots staged an illegal sick-out to protest Reno Air pilot's seniority in the American/Reno Air merger, and were heavily fined.
  11. If APA's pilots voted in ALPA, the debt from the sick-out judgement could be shed in the move to ALPA, but not if APA and ALPA merged.
  12. ALPA regularly and consistently courted the APA during the TWA/American merger.
  13. ALPA kept all their efforts to court APA from the TWA MEC.

In short, ALPA sacrificed the TWA pilot's seniority integration in order to court the APA, violating their duty of fair representation to the TWA-MEC and TWA pilots.

All of this is direct from the complaint by the TWA pilots.

ALPA disagrees with some issues:
- ALPA didn't convince/coerce the TWA MEC to give up their Allegheny Mohawk rights, the TWA MEC had the ultimate decision to give those rights up for American's "reasonable best efforts" to integrate.
- ALPA didn't conspire behind the TWA MEC's back to get the APA pilots to vote for ALPA.
- The TWA pilots need to blame the TWA MEC for their lot, not ALPA, who merely advised. The TWA MEC was in the driver's seat, not ALPA.

As we know, a jury decided in favor of the TWA pilots. ALPA's appealing.

cactiboss 07-14-2011 01:47 PM


Originally Posted by Flyby1206 (Post 1022149)
Wow, just wow!

Has USAir East already filed a lawsuit against ALPA for the 'integration' with the West?
.

What are you talking about? The TWA case is the exact opposite of the awa case.

Karnak 07-14-2011 03:27 PM


Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1022568)
I don't pay OJ to protect and enhance my career, and increase my QOL.

Jury...it has nothing to do with Oj, it's about...ah, never mind! You won't get it.

Karnak 07-14-2011 03:37 PM


Originally Posted by amcflyboy (Post 1022596)
So you're saying ALPA is just as guilty as OJ being not guilty?:eek:

I'm saying there is no predicting what a jury will do, even when presented common sense evidence.

OJ murdered those two people. A jury said he didn't.

Juries can, and DO, glom onto tangental bits of arguments, and use them as justification to render lame verdicts. Anybody think OJ didn't do it? Other than the 12 jurists, I mean.... The TWA MEC, with urine running down their pants legs, made the call...and now claim "information was withheld". Yeah...and the glove didn't fit.

AA should have let TWA go Chapter 7. Same number of "victims", but no lawsuit. The TWA plaintiffs spilled hot coffee in their laps, and sued McDonalds.

Carl Spackler 07-14-2011 03:43 PM


Originally Posted by Karnak (Post 1022502)
In a related story, OJ found "not guilty" of murder...

How truly sad. You've been nothing but a shameless ALPA apologist from the start of this discussion. Name calling and denigrating anyone who thought TWA pilots may have been wronged by ALPA. And this is the best you can come up with? Again, truly sad.

Sniper's excellent synopsis is a must read for what ALPA actually did.

Carl

Carl Spackler 07-14-2011 03:45 PM


Originally Posted by Karnak (Post 1022677)
Jury...it has nothing to do with Oj, it's about...ah, never mind! You won't get it.

WE don't get it?

A judge is going to soon help you "get it".

Carl


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