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-   -   TWA Pilots vs. ALPA in DFR suit (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/union-talk/60671-twa-pilots-vs-alpa-dfr-suit.html)

Bucking Bar 07-13-2011 11:05 AM


Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 1021973)
Obviously it was going to be a win for the TWA pilots; Scope is never on the table during a bankruptcy. Shame on ALPA for some reason saying it is....

Anyone have the text of the entire verdict?

ATCsaidDoWhat 07-13-2011 12:07 PM

What is really ominous is that before ALPA can appeal, the judge has said they must post a bond equivalent to the estimated damages and legal fees for the pilots. That number conservatively is close to one billion...with a "b" dollars.

That's going to be awfully hard to find an underwriter for.

ATCsaidDoWhat 07-13-2011 12:12 PM


Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1021986)
Anyone have the text of the entire verdict?

It was only two questions:

Did ALPA violate DFR?

Did ALPA's violation of DFR cause injury to the TWA pilots?

"Yes" on both.

ALPA must post a bond equal to the estimated damages and legal fees before they can appeal. Estimate of the amount is based on lost wages, investments, retirements, families...you get the drift.

In the neighborhood of one Billion...

Boomer 07-13-2011 12:20 PM


Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat (Post 1022028)
In the neighborhood of one Billion...

Maybe we could all chip in five bucks, or have a bake sale?

eaglefly 07-13-2011 12:34 PM


Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat (Post 1022028)
It was only two questions:

Did ALPA violate DFR?

Did ALPA's violation of DFR cause injury to the TWA pilots?

"Yes" on both.

ALPA must post a bond equal to the estimated damages and legal fees before they can appeal. Estimate of the amount is based on lost wages, investments, retirements, families...you get the drift.

In the neighborhood of one Billion...

Does ALPA's insurance cover that type of award for their own malfeasance ?

Sounds to me like all the TWA pilots will be able to retire millionaires and leave this industry in the shambles ALPA has allowed it to become.

Even if ALPA's insurance covers a lesser award, I'd think every ALPA pilot might well be looking at a 5% paycut soon from massively increased dues to a stunning special assessment.

I can only wonder as well whether certain people in ALPA are scrambling to protect their financial assets and/or contemplating a hasty exit ?

Bucking Bar 07-13-2011 01:17 PM

I'm not seeing anything on damages. The Court will encourage voluntary settlement and after this ruling, my guess is that somebody's looking for their checkbook. It will not be in the billions, but a few million may be a stake here.

A New Jersey federal court jury decided Wednesday that the Air Line Pilots Association didn't do a proper job of representing Trans World Airlines pilots during TWA's 2001 merger with American Airlines.

Most of those pilots were furloughed soon after the merger as American slashed capacity post-Sept. 11, and a group of the ex-TWA pilots subsequently sued ALPA, American Airlines and the Allied Pilots Association.

The case has dragged on for nearly a decade after its 2002 filing.

A federal district judge dismissed the case against all defendants in 2003, but a federal appeals court in 2004 reinstated the case against ALPA.

What this means remains to be seen. The jury decision was simply a determination that ALPA violated its duty of fair representation during the merger process.
Glad the Delta MEC has been saving their own rainy day fund.

ALPA took action to make itself judgement proof by moving resources offshore during the Ford / Cooksey litigation. "We" also have considerable insurance coverage.

forgot to bid 07-13-2011 01:21 PM


Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1022072)
IGlad the Delta MEC has been saving their own rainy day fund.

How much money does ALPA have? And how much came from Delta pilots?



I bet there are some TWA folks celebrating today! Good for them. I wonder how many we have here at Delta, they'd be interesting to hear from.

forgot to bid 07-13-2011 01:25 PM

July 13, 2011
Former TWA pilots prevail in lawsuit against ALPA

A federal jury in New Jersey said that the Air Line Pilots Association did not fairly represent former TWA pilots' interests when the carrier merged with American Airlines.

The lawsuit, filed by ex-TWA pilots in 2002, said the union pressured TWA members during the merger discussions and acted in bad faith as ALPA and the Allied Pilots Association, which represents American's pilots, negotiated a seniority list. American bought TWA's assets out of bankruptcy in 2001 for $4.2 billion.

The jury also found that ALPA's "violation of its duty of fair representation," caused injury to some of TWA's pilots. What has not yet been decided in this case is the amount of damages that should be awarded to the former TWA employees.

Read more: Sky Talk: Former TWA pilots prevail in lawsuit against ALPA

eaglefly 07-13-2011 01:34 PM


Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1022072)
I'm not seeing anything on damages. The Court will encourage voluntary settlement and after this ruling, my guess is that somebody's looking for their checkbook. It will not be in the billions, but a few million may be a stake here.Glad the Delta MEC has been saving their own rainy day fund.

Probably right. I suppose in a worst case scenario, they could just declare BK and the TWA pilots would get pennies on the dollar (as usual, the lawyers all get fat though).

At the very least, the TWA pilots will get some vindication for ALPA's faliure to properly represent THEM, instead of ALPA placing its own strategic interests first.

This should also be a wake-up call for those currently represented by this mess of an organization or those considering diving into the Virginia feces pile.


Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1022072)
ALPA took action to make itself judgement proof by moving resources offshore during the Ford / Cooksey litigation. "We" also have considerable insurance coverage.

This does not surprise me. It's what the shifty, shafty, crooked and crafty have always done......i.e., hide their assets to protect their irresponsibilities. IMO, another example of an organization that cannot be trusted and whose priniciple interest is........well, it's OWN interests.

My condolences to the hard-working pilots getting secondary scraps, when their interests should be primary.

Superdad 07-13-2011 01:36 PM

ALPA can levy all the assessments they want, I will not pay one dime to cover this.


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