lear 31 pilot

I will be the first to admit I have never been a union member, and understand they can be good and bad. I just wonder everyday why other industries can have a nationwide union, and pilots cant. The International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers for example. I am a well paid pt 135 pilot but I am sick of the rules of the job constantly changing and always being told I am overpaid, Screw you I am a professional, as is any nurse, electrician, and many other highly unionized careers. I have a family to support just like everyone else and I dont do this career for the joy of flying. It is time to seriously start looking into some type of pilot representation for all professional pilots.

Lab Rat

Like you I too have a family to support and only do this job because of the money and schedule - not because of the "joy of flying".

Inevitably, someone will read my above statement and ask the age-old question, "well, if you don't enjoy flying then why do you do this?" My answer is simple: because this is my job and not my hobby. And therein lies the problem with this industry compared to any other - too many people who place job satisfaction above compensation and benefits.

There is no shortage of people in this industry willing to do this job for practically free because of the proverbial "it beats working in an cubicle mentality." Airline managers know this and use it to their advantage. Can anyone honestly blame them? I personally cannot, and I am a union member.

The topic of a nationwide union has been kicked around here countless times. Not only do I believe it will never happen, I also do not support it. Pilot groups would fare much better to form their own independent unions to deal with their respective carriers. Again, the crux of the problem isn't a lack of a big union, the problem is too many people chasing too few jobs and willing to do those jobs for too few dollars for far too long.

jungle

Sadly, many of us have fallen for the myth that unions can deliver on the promise of a high salary.

Take a look around this site, high salaries are a direct result of a successful business model. You can of course say unions helped that, and you can also cite many examples of bankrupt airlines with a very deluxe union.

Two things will help your salary, a very good business model and a very high standard of professionalism demanded by the business.

lear 31 pilot

Jungle,

I agree with you, there should never be a reason for a union, if you put in 110%, your employer should give the same to you, It is a two way street boys. I agree unions have not given the Aviation industry much, 32000 a year to fly right seat in a 90+ passenger airliner (Republic Airlines), Pathetic and shameful. I am young and am still trying to figure out this messed up industry, I just will never be able to figure out why leaders in this industry and other industries cant see how the sucessful, profitable companys treat employees and model themselves after them. Also for me it is not so much about making the super big bucks, it is about a livable salary and the respect of being the professional I have trained to become, which alot of Management in this industry do not get.

SkyHigh

Personally it seems to me that in the history of America we went from a nation of bakers, butchers and farmers (small business owners and independent contractors) to that of being employees after the industrial revolution.

As a result of over one hundred years of concentrating into professional specialized careers we largely have forgotten how to be business owners and are limited in our choices. Companies have learned that they have a captive workforce that can not easily leave. Competition is fierce in modern business. Products and services are nearly the same especially in aviation. Management has to extract a profit margin out of their career hostage employees.

Whoever is the best slave ship essentially wins. Eventually every company must sink to the lowest common denominator or loose ground to their low cost competitors. I am sure that every company who is leading the industry in wages and benefits are embarrassed by that title and actively working to reverse that trend.

Skyhigh

JamesNoBrakes

Would you take an exec job at a regional for $200,000/yr or more? I know lots of people would. Would you hinge it on whether it's well run or profitable? Maybe, but you know that many people would think about the pay and then rationalize the rest, heck they rationalize enough being pilots of said company. Basically, many of these airlines have none of the things you mention, a way to attract (and continue to motivate) very professional people and or a good business model. What's the incentive? Unions help a little in this area at least, but I'd agree that it's entire business model and industry that's broken. Union's aren't going to fix that.

Lab Rat

..........

hesitant

It's a good idea, but it most likely will never happen. Senioroty will allways be an issue. Could you imagine the uproar had United pilots been made to allow Pan Am pilots to retain all seniority when Pan Am folded, and United took over many routes in the early 1990's?
I am more in favour of unions establishing a bottom line that would in effect set minimum standards across the board. No single airline would allow the company to pay such low starting wages. All unions would follow suit. What do you think? Just an idea, and maybe not so simple.

lear 31 pilot

I agree, a full blown union would never work. Something that gives us minimum standards that companies must abide by thats what I was thinking too. Not that simple I know.

Fly Boy Knight

The "problem" is, in a free market, the "market" demands a service and the companies "supply" it and there is really not much else that can alter this fairly simple process. I was watching a news story the other day (again) about how crappy regional pilots are paid and when they interviewed a bunch of random people about it... ALL of them said that it was horrible / unacceptable / scary / etc.

The funny thing about this story is that all of these people SAY that this practice is bad... but what do you think they do when they buy their airline tickets.... they find the ABSOLUTE lowest price with out taking ANYTHING else into consideration! They go from site to site, company to company, and even go as far as altering their travel plans (departure/destination/day of the week/etc.) JUST to get the cheapest possible price.

When all the "market" really (in reality, not in front of a camera) cares about is price... then that's what the airlines must cater to and that's how us pilots continue to get low balled lower and lower. As much as I wish I could blame these "ruthless" company managers for this practice, they are at the mercy of the market's pressures.

If the "market" started to care about professionalism / experience / training of pilots / safety / etc... then the "market" will have to start DEMANDING that stuff by looking at things OTHER than the absolute, rock bottom lowest price in order for these companies to start "supplying" that type of stuff.