Airline Pilot Central Forums

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)

- Union Talk (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/union-talk/)

- - NEW Union (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/union-talk/67614-new-union.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy flyer (Post 1224671)

What is condescending is telling Third World countries how to manage their affairs; to impose our standards on them. You might note every one of those countries strongly oppose the imposition of Western standards on them.

GF

That's true of individuals as well as countries; pride is a big obstacle which makes it hard to take good advice. It's usually more effective to just do the right thing yourself, and let others watch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 1195556)

1. XYZ Union to unite all or as many Part 121 Groups as possible.

conclusion: something must be done as the regional airline industry and pay is growing and majors are shrinking leaving no pilot safe. From the most senior pilot at the most prestigious airline, as history tells us, those on top better watch their back too. I am willing to start a stand alone forum to discuss all facets of such union and even set up representative councils from other airlines. Possibly create a meeting somewhere nice, so we don't get to depressed and upset, to discuss. Why a new union? ALPA has failed us over and over and it's time for their reckoning as well. We need this to be as simple and clairvoyant as possible.

The statement about ALPO is the ONLY statement in your thesis that is accurate. As for the new union, with one seniority list and a different pay scale; been proposed, been discussed to death and nothing has or will ever change. Period. End of discussion and to think that there is a possibility this utopian scheme might succeed, is "pie in the sky" dreaming. Not in this industry in 2012 !

G'Luck Mate:)

Great thread. I always wondered why painters, roofers and other laborers can have one union and retain their pay scale across layoffs and multiple jobs but pilots can't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonah (Post 1225809)

Great thread. I always wondered why painters, roofers and other laborers can have one union and retain their pay scale across layoffs and multiple jobs but pilots can't.

To me, it's pretty simple. Other trade organizations have a common union that they must join to obtain employment, unless it's a right to work state. Most of those unions are long established and entrenched in the construction or trade they represent. Even in right to work states, many join; wages are established, work rules set and contracts let to employers. Bricklayers, pipe fitters, plumbers, etc. have a strong membership that takes care of their own and ensure "outsiders" get what crumbs are available.

The airline industry, from a labor perspective, is fractured into each different pilot group and despite the efforts of a national organization (ALPO), a national seniority list, common pay scales, work rules, etc. simply won't work. Each carrier has established, over time, their own set of work rules through labor contracts, which include pay scales, work rules, etc. To think that all those disjointed groups can be brought under the same umbrella is sheer folly. Besides, ALPA, at the national level, has become such a political organization that it is slowly drowning in its' own ineptitude. To make matters worse, the national officers have completely lost sight of their objective; to represent the men and women in the trenches: the line pilots. They are too busy ensuring that they maintain their jobs with the outrageous pay scales and incredible benefits. If you haven't checked their pay and benefits out, it will scare you to see where your dues are going.

Nothing is going to change this profession as it slowly slides downhill as far as benefits and pay are concerned. The current issue of Air Transport World details how difficult it is to make money over time in this industry. If the company can't turn a decent profit, guess what? The life that we once knew will continue to erode as the company struggles to keep it's head above water.

Just my two cents.

G'Day Mates:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 1195556)

1. XYZ Union to unite all or as many Part 121 Groups as possible.

2. Min FO Pay: $100/hr, Min CAPT Pay: $130 The pay scale has influenced furloughs, alter ego airlines and financially forced pilots to stay where they are and unable to change airlines due to first year pay. This also prevents the motivation for Majors to continually grow the regional airlines to 76 seaters just has Delta's MEC just voted to agree to do so for a slight pay increase. The rumors are becoming louder of 100 seaters becoming imminent as well. $230/hr. That is less than a ticket. They can afford it.

3. One Seniority List (which would only affect those unemployed or furloughed. Wherever you currently stand at your airline, you stay. No body can jump in front of you. When a participating airline hires, it interviews the most senior pilot not currently gainfully employed on the list. How compiled is yet to be determined. Possibly first part 121 carrier job hire date or age. Hours and ranking scale of current standings and particular airlines might be too controversial.)

4. How to unite. Participating airlines and pilot groups will select only members from the union for interviews first until all have been exhausted. All new employees not currently in union, will be added. If a future contract negotiation between said airline and its pilot group has not been met, then a strike would be requested for all pilot groups under its holding company's umbrella. (ie: If American Mainline went on strike, all regionals flying for American would go on strike. If Mesaba goes on strike, all pilots under Pinnacle go on strike.) Agree to new pay scale and union list, On the same day all members submit pending letters of resignation if union terms are not accepted. We cannot strike as our government's court might view our modus operandi of either calling in sick or not showing as illegal. If we all quit, there can be not punishment. Any pilot who chooses to work after such d-day, will be indefinitely blackballed.

conclusion: something must be done as the regional airline industry and pay is growing and majors are shrinking leaving no pilot safe. From the most senior pilot at the most prestigious airline, as history tells us, those on top better watch their back too. I am willing to start a stand alone forum to discuss all facets of such union and even set up representative councils from other airlines. Possibly create a meeting somewhere nice, so we don't get to depressed and upset, to discuss. Why a new union? ALPA has failed us over and over and it's time for their reckoning as well. We need this to be as simple and clairvoyant as possible.

I'll need to come visit "Never Never Land" for vacation next year...