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Old 09-05-2016, 12:13 PM   #1  
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Default Forgotten facts of American labor history!

A good read for Labor Day!


https://mises.org/library/forgotten-...-labor-history
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Old 09-05-2016, 12:33 PM   #2  
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Dear MartinBaker, why don't you just go to work for the national foundation for the right to work? It is or used to be in Lynchburg Virginia..You would like it there.....I have worked for 8 non-union operators and 2 union ones. As a working pilot, unions certainly aren't perfect but a totally non-union aviation operation really really sucks. Since it is quite obvious that you have never worked as a pilot, you wouldn't know this, and are therefore in your "cocoon of bliss"...And really like it there..If you want to be happy, go to work for an anti-union foundation where everyone thinks like you. Because If you fly for an airline you will be unhappy. We have by experience chosen unions, and will continue to do so.. Why do airlines have unions? Because they deserve them.
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Old 09-05-2016, 12:41 PM   #3  
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I am not anti-union, I am anti-forced unionism. Being required to pay dues to some union boss just to gain employment is coercion and is immoral.

I actually think the safety aspect of unionism is a good thing, and I would probably join one of my own free will. But it should be a choice, not a mandate.
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Old 09-05-2016, 12:48 PM   #4  
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I am not anti-union, I am anti-forced unionism. Being required to pay dues to some union boss just to gain employment is coercion and is immoral.

I actually think the safety aspect of unionism is a good thing, and I would probably join one of my own free will. But it should be a choice, not a mandate.
Since you aren't an airline pilot yet, you can choose to work for a non-union regional. Don't come to a major (particularly mine) and spew that crap. You don't have a right to speak for me. You want the union to do all the heavy lifting and you reap the benefits.... you just want me and my Union brothers and sisters to pay for it. That's not the way things work over here, so perhaps you would be happier just becoming a lifer at SkyWest. Of course, you DO realize that THEIR contract is essentially bought and paid for by Union Pilots at OTHER airlines through pattern bargaining, right?

You're welcome.
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Old 09-05-2016, 02:51 PM   #5  
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Since you aren't an airline pilot yet, you can choose to work for a non-union regional. Don't come to a major (particularly mine) and spew that crap. You don't have a right to speak for me. You want the union to do all the heavy lifting and you reap the benefits.... you just want me and my Union brothers and sisters to pay for it. That's not the way things work over here, so perhaps you would be happier just becoming a lifer at SkyWest. Of course, you DO realize that THEIR contract is essentially bought and paid for by Union Pilots at OTHER airlines through pattern bargaining, right?

You're welcome.
You apparently have a reading comprehension problem
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Old 09-05-2016, 03:22 PM   #6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinBishop View Post
I am not anti-union, I am anti-forced unionism. Being required to pay dues to some union boss just to gain employment is coercion and is immoral.

I actually think the safety aspect of unionism is a good thing, and I would probably join one of my own free will. But it should be a choice, not a mandate.
Get a clue and get your commercial rating before spouting on here to people who actually do this for a living.

Nobody is forced to join union. You are not forced to work anywhere, you make the choice. You may want to work at an airline that happens to be union and thats not just a coincidence, better places are union places. Once SKyWest gets their act together, its all union.

Once at the union airline, you are not forced to join a union, but you will have to pay a fee because like it or not, those wages and benefits were negotiated using union money and its union money that keeps the company honest with upholding the contract between bargaining cycles, in the forms of grievances and arbitration hearings.

And I guarantee you that you would be the first on the phone to the union when you misstep the company is wanting your behind in a sling.

I now forbid you form posting anything else in the Majors Forum until you have learned how to do a lazy 8 or a chandelle.
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Old 09-05-2016, 03:34 PM   #7  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinBishop View Post
I am not anti-union, I am anti-forced unionism. Being required to pay dues to some union boss just to gain employment is coercion and is immoral.

I actually think the safety aspect of unionism is a good thing, and I would probably join one of my own free will. But it should be a choice, not a mandate.
You are never forced to work and pay any dues at any time. Plenty of beautiful non union pilot jobs. Part 135, corporate via independent contracting, china contracts and the rest of southwest asia where unions are illegal, just like it was in the third Reich.
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Old 09-05-2016, 04:55 PM   #8  
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Martin...

When you were a freshman did you go around telling the seniors "how it is"?

Why do you think this scenario is any different?
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Old 09-05-2016, 05:37 PM   #9  
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You apparently have a reading comprehension problem
No I don't. I've spent 25 years living the ramifications of airline life with and without unions. You don't want to be forced to join a union, and you resent being "coerced" into paying dues as a condition of employment. For 85 years pilots have been doing this dance, so I'm not sure why you think you've come along and built a better mousetrap. It wouldn't work if dues were "optional". Nobody LIKES putting in their 2%, but almost all of us understand why we do it and how important it is to have EVERYONE on board. Many of us understand it so well we donate MORE to ALPA PAC voluntarily. Consider it a price of admission, and if you don't like it, don't play. But when and if you finally get your licenses and ratings and make it to the airlines, take my advice and leave the independent contractor mindset at home. You won't find a lot of sympathetic ears.

As mentioned, lots of shops out there that you can exercise you desire not to be forced into paying union dues. Just remember that any gains you obtain at those places are most likely do to the pattern bargaining that's typical in this industry, and the vast majority of pilots who have fought for those gains have paid their dues while you have just enjoyed the spoils. I'm guessing you resent paying taxes on the money you earn at work, too. That's not "optional" either, so why not pick up that crusade?
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Old 09-05-2016, 05:51 PM   #10  
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No one should be forced to pay union dues as a condition of employment, it is unjust. That's not being anti-union, it is being pro-freedom. 80% of Americans agree, according to Gallup.
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