Notices

Council 5 Update - Recall Ballots

Old 08-22-2022, 04:46 PM
  #1  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Position: B777 CA
Posts: 725
Default Council 5 Update - Recall Ballots

The following was posted on 2 FB United Pilot Forums.

All Names have been replaced with initials, phone numbers and emails removed to comply with APC forum rules.

COUNCIL 5 UPDATE - RECALL BALLOT.

I had a good discussion with TM (ALPA National attorney) today. Basically, they are waiting for the S/T PW to send the ballots into National so they can send the recall ballot out. Historically S/Ts have FedEx’d them the day after the meeting. Nobody seems to know if Wenzel has sent the ballots. The officers are not responding to anyone on the prevailing side.

My view is that if PW plays games he will go down in ALPA history as something not very good. But this is exactly what so many of us have been experiencing for the last six years. This is not a surprise. Before the meeting started I talked to PW. In as sympathetic and kind a tone as I could muster

I suggested to him the hundreds of pilots lined up were not there to help him. I suggested that in retrospect, in 1997, when our council was involved in a recall, that I should have resigned. It was not worth putting the council through the turmoil. At the end of the day I was recalled by a vote of 103 to 99. It was really close. Nothing like Council 5. And it was basically a dispute over trading the 50 seat regional jets for about $80 million in pension restitution for a small group of pilots. I was not against that, but I didn’t believe we should trade the RJs for it.

So when I suggested to PW that he should consider resigning and not putting the council through this mess, he said, “You know what happens if I resign right now?” I said, “No, what?” He pointed at the ballots and other documents and said, “These are mine. I take these and they’re mine.” I said, “No, they belong to ALPA, to the pilots.” He said, “NO, they are mine! I leave with them.” I said, “Get a hold of yourself, Phil. Don’t be a child.” So this is what Council 5 is dealing with.

Meanwhile here is the timeline: There are two Election Ballot Certification Committees (EBCB) coming up; 9/9, and 10/10. If ALPA National receives the ballots from PW by August 26th, they can get the recall ballots out to the council and they will have the 15 days required and will be able to be counted on 9/9. This will allow us time to have a special meeting to elect interim officers and be represented at the BOD in October.

If PW plays games and does not get the ballots to National by 8/26, they will hopefully go out sometime soon and can be counted on 10/10, but that will not leave enough time to elect interim reps for the BOD. Council 5 will go unrepresented. This would be disgusting on the part of the current reps. According to TC (ALPA Attorney), nobody can appoint interim reps after a recall, they must be elected in a special meeting. Over the years every time we try to hold GJ (5 Chaur) and CM (C5 VC) accountable for their actions, such as the Article VIII hearings in which their testimony was found “not credible,” by the Hearing Board, GJ always rants to the council that we are costing the Association money.

It’s stunning how he dismisses being held to a higher standard because it “costs money.” But he has no problem putting the Association through a recall - talk about costing us all unnecessary money, when it is obvious they are going to be recalled. It speaks to their arrogance and their propensity to put themselves before the pilots. Surprised? Right? So here we all sit, waiting.

The Council 5 officers are not communicating. The ALPA National VP of Admin is not communicating. The lack of professionalism is unparalleled. It all starts at the top. EMAIL AND CALL PW & BC (ALPA VP of Administration). Tell them to get the ballots out now. BC & PW Phone Numbers and Emails Removed.
Boeing Aviator is offline  
Old 08-22-2022, 04:54 PM
  #2  
Moderator
 
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Position: MEC Chairman, Snack Basket Committee
Posts: 3,194
Default

I appreciate that, BA. It's hard to keep up when some explosive news creates 60 posts in a day! I'm just a lowly volunteer who doesn't have time to meme anymore!
BobbyLeeSwagger is offline  
Old 08-23-2022, 09:18 AM
  #3  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Viperstick's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 280
Default

Originally Posted by Boeing Aviator View Post
The following was posted on 2 FB United Pilot Forums.

All Names have been replaced with initials, phone numbers and emails removed to comply with APC forum rules.

COUNCIL 5 UPDATE - RECALL BALLOT.

I had a good discussion with TM (ALPA National attorney) today. Basically, they are waiting for the S/T PW to send the ballots into National so they can send the recall ballot out. Historically S/Ts have FedEx’d them the day after the meeting. Nobody seems to know if Wenzel has sent the ballots. The officers are not responding to anyone on the prevailing side.

My view is that if PW plays games he will go down in ALPA history as something not very good. But this is exactly what so many of us have been experiencing for the last six years. This is not a surprise. Before the meeting started I talked to PW. In as sympathetic and kind a tone as I could muster

I suggested to him the hundreds of pilots lined up were not there to help him. I suggested that in retrospect, in 1997, when our council was involved in a recall, that I should have resigned. It was not worth putting the council through the turmoil. At the end of the day I was recalled by a vote of 103 to 99. It was really close. Nothing like Council 5. And it was basically a dispute over trading the 50 seat regional jets for about $80 million in pension restitution for a small group of pilots. I was not against that, but I didn’t believe we should trade the RJs for it.

So when I suggested to PW that he should consider resigning and not putting the council through this mess, he said, “You know what happens if I resign right now?” I said, “No, what?” He pointed at the ballots and other documents and said, “These are mine. I take these and they’re mine.” I said, “No, they belong to ALPA, to the pilots.” He said, “NO, they are mine! I leave with them.” I said, “Get a hold of yourself, Phil. Don’t be a child.” So this is what Council 5 is dealing with.

Meanwhile here is the timeline: There are two Election Ballot Certification Committees (EBCB) coming up; 9/9, and 10/10. If ALPA National receives the ballots from PW by August 26th, they can get the recall ballots out to the council and they will have the 15 days required and will be able to be counted on 9/9. This will allow us time to have a special meeting to elect interim officers and be represented at the BOD in October.

If PW plays games and does not get the ballots to National by 8/26, they will hopefully go out sometime soon and can be counted on 10/10, but that will not leave enough time to elect interim reps for the BOD. Council 5 will go unrepresented. This would be disgusting on the part of the current reps. According to TC (ALPA Attorney), nobody can appoint interim reps after a recall, they must be elected in a special meeting. Over the years every time we try to hold GJ (5 Chaur) and CM (C5 VC) accountable for their actions, such as the Article VIII hearings in which their testimony was found “not credible,” by the Hearing Board, GJ always rants to the council that we are costing the Association money.

It’s stunning how he dismisses being held to a higher standard because it “costs money.” But he has no problem putting the Association through a recall - talk about costing us all unnecessary money, when it is obvious they are going to be recalled. It speaks to their arrogance and their propensity to put themselves before the pilots. Surprised? Right? So here we all sit, waiting.

The Council 5 officers are not communicating. The ALPA National VP of Admin is not communicating. The lack of professionalism is unparalleled. It all starts at the top. EMAIL AND CALL PW & BC (ALPA VP of Administration). Tell them to get the ballots out now. BC & PW Phone Numbers and Emails Removed.
I would posit the timeline is going to be slowed due to the upcoming ALPA national election. They want to install Insler & this whole TA pullback chicanery was done to facilitate that. They want those reps in position to make the ALPA national vote; what happens afterwards is irrelevant.

OBTW, I wrote the ALPA national admin/secretary asking how he was going to ensure a stunt like BW’s letter could never happen again and how he was going to hold those responsible for the act. Got a completely sanctimonious non-answer. The fish rots from the head…
Viperstick is offline  
Old 08-23-2022, 02:41 PM
  #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 101
Default

Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
I would posit the timeline is going to be slowed due to the upcoming ALPA national election. They want to install Insler & this whole TA pullback chicanery was done to facilitate that. They want those reps in position to make the ALPA national vote; what happens afterwards is irrelevant.

OBTW, I wrote the ALPA national admin/secretary asking how he was going to ensure a stunt like BW’s letter could never happen again and how he was going to hold those responsible for the act. Got a completely sanctimonious non-answer. The fish rots from the head…
Apparently he also ruled all of the resolutions passed at the C5 meeting (with the exception of the recall resolutions) out of order. After the fact. Bottom up my A$$.
Red Swingline is offline  
Old 08-24-2022, 05:47 AM
  #5  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 84
Default

Why do reps refuse to step down if the majority want them replaced?

That’s not how this works.
C17man is offline  
Old 08-24-2022, 08:31 AM
  #6  
On Leave
 
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: CA
Posts: 63
Default

Originally Posted by C17man View Post
Why do reps refuse to step down if the majority want them replaced?

That’s not how this works.
Because that’s only a majority of those who showed up at the meeting, not a majority of those represented.
metx192 is offline  
Old 08-24-2022, 08:53 AM
  #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2022
Position: 787 FO
Posts: 522
Default

Originally Posted by metx192 View Post
Because that’s only a majority of those who showed up at the meeting, not a majority of those represented.
It was a historic turnout representing a third of the voting membership who voted 5 to 1 for recall. Would you like to wager how the whole council votes if the ballots/proxies ever get to ALPA Int'l?
jerryleber is offline  
Old 08-24-2022, 08:57 AM
  #8  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SFO Guppy CA
Posts: 1,112
Default

Originally Posted by C17man View Post
Why do reps refuse to step down if the majority want them replaced?

That’s not how this works.
It’s because they like FPL and not having to fly as much. They essentially don’t want to lose their cushy union job.
DashTrash is offline  
Old 08-24-2022, 10:26 AM
  #9  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 1,820
Default

Originally Posted by metx192 View Post
Because that’s only a majority of those who showed up at the meeting, not a majority of those represented.
That is just as ridiculous now as when Johnson said it out loud at the meeting. Tone deaf doesn’t even begin to describe it.
JoePatroni is offline  
Old 08-24-2022, 03:50 PM
  #10  
Gets Weekends Off
 
awax's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,799
Default

Originally Posted by DashTrash View Post
It’s because they like FPL and not having to fly as much. They essentially don’t want to lose their cushy union job.
I’ve done union work and been on extended FPL (about 90 days) and I can tell you that flying the line was way easier and a much more attractive use of time.

It’s easy to demonize the ALPA volunteers who have delivered recent results and have been on extended FPL. However, as a matter of policy, it’s the cost of doing the pilot’s business. There’s no way anyone capable of doing the job is going to do so at a loss. More important, should line pilots expect reps to volunteer extraordinary amounts of time to the detriment of their personal, social, and financial wellbeing?

To me, it’s a value proposition. If reps are willing to serve and performing well for the membership, then continue. If they don’t represent a good return on dues dollars then it’s obviously time for a change. I don’t begrudge FPL, but I’ve heard somewhere recently “results matter”.
awax is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Boeing Aviator
=> United Contract 2022
16
08-27-2022 07:19 AM
Boeing Aviator
=> United Contract 2022
5
07-22-2022 11:19 PM
rube
Delta
23
12-14-2016 01:57 PM
iarapilot
Cargo
5
06-02-2014 09:08 PM
Low & Slow
Major
0
02-07-2007 05:23 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices