Speaking of which, did I miss the memo that they would be late?

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Yes Kirk, you did😂

So what happens if the company misses the deadline for putting out the FO bid in 2:44? Do we all get add pay?

Never mind. Out now.

I see no Sfo FO bids published.

Where's the awards??? My freaking regional had a better PBS bidding system (flightline) and we would get the awards a week ago.......ridiculous

I have been successful many times in the past when doing that in the past. You need to ensure your Bid group fails if you don't get those specific trips. PM me for details. I'll screenshot my bid statements to your email if you want.

C17D

paid the money. No help.

PBS is a company (management) administered pilot staffing and bidding system. It does both. We as pilots (as well as ALPA) have no input on staffing. Therefore, it doesn't matter how smart you are. You can't out-smart a math problem, where one variable is unknown, and the other variable is out of your control.

ALPA's input and control/supervision of Management's bidding/staffing system is just lipstick on a pig. It's very minimal and lacks oversight.

Once you strip all the bells and whistles and shine off of it, it's a Ford Etzel.

'D'

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...gy-IBNBscCEC7g


"That's why we're all here, right? To celebrate E Day, the date 50 years ago when Ford took one of the autodom's most hilarious pratfalls. But why? It really wasn't that bad a car. True, the car was kind of homely, fuel thirsty and too expensive, particularly at the outset of the late '50s recession. But what else? It was the first victim of Madison Avenue hyper-hype. Ford's marketing mavens had led the public to expect some plutonium-powered, pancake-making wondercar; what they got was a Mercury. Cultural critics speculated that the car was a flop because the vertical grill looked like a vagina. Maybe. America in the '50s was certainly phobic about the female business. How did the Edsel come to be synonymous with failure? All of the above, consolidated into an irrational groupthink and pressurized by a joyously catty media. Interestingly, it was Ford President Robert McNamara who convinced the board to bail out of the Edsel project; a decade later, it was McNamara, then Secretary of Defense, who couldn't bring himself to quit the disaster of Vietnam, even though he knew a lemon when he saw one.


1958 Ford Edsel - The 50 Worst Cars of All Time - TIME

Your posts are like Trumps tweets - full of emotion and hyperbole and short on facts. It's gotta feel pretty good to be you, huh?

And yours sir are a lot like Hillary tweets...false accusations, ridiculous assertions....you get my drift. Your good posts are completely obscured by your continuous stone throwing.......

Maybe this will help you. DOCUMENTED..........The number one B777 Captain in IAH had his bid groups fail more than once.

Can you say "denial mode"? I knew you could.

No emotion or English-language trickery there bubba, just plain ole, no bread- and butter, no grits and bacon, just slap-ya-mamma honest to goodness truth sandwich. have a bite buddy, and pucker up and get a good lip smacking smootchie-smootch.

PBS SUX. Good day.

Just to point you back to the original concept you obviously thought was a trump tweet of some sort................BAH HUMBUG.

How can you say that the program called PBS isn't a company management and staffing tool? That's what the heck it is dude. It's not a pilot centered and focused and controlled scheduling optimization tool. it's a company (MANAGEMENT) controlled and administered staffing and seat filling software program that was outsourced to a third party vendor.....No emotion there. IT's very factual. Not sure how/why you don't understand that. Do you have some sort of PBS agenda or something?

Well, how about this:


Now, go read Section 1, 5, and 8 (for starters) of the current CBA. Maybe you've heard terms like "scope choke" (section 1), or "duty day" (section 5), or section 8 which is actually titled "STAFFING". The entire CBA is chocked FULL of little nuggets that directly affect pilot staffing.

As for PBS, its far form perfect but for a guy like me who's about 30% BES, I get my first bid group awarded every single month. I don't say that to brag because I'm the farthest thing from a PBS expert. But, I do have a functional understanding of how the program works and know what I can hold given my BES seniority. I'd suggest that any pilot who fails to learn the program, or makes unrealistic requests will be disappointed. Even the number one guy in BES can input an illegal bid and learn about completion mode the hard way.

PBS is far from perfect, it needs to be predictable and transparent. Any future changes to PBS won't remove the responsibility for each pilot to know how the program works, and make realistic monthly bids.

Well, I guess it's great for you. Awesome.

The reality is that the union has very little ACTUAL CONTROL. If it did, the union would be able to mandate that PBS honor seniority. We have no problem honoring seniority when it comes to vacancy bids, displacement bids, and vacation bids. But, when it comes to monthly scheduling, seniority is not a mandatory absolute right given to the pilots.

We have had over a dozen meltdowns at both CAL and UAL with PBS.

Most pilots are too lazy to learn how to bid... thats the real problem.

You mean we're living with the PBS system we agreed to in the UPA and pilots still refuse to learn it?

ACTUAL CONTROL, you mean like the $60 million in grievance awards - in March alone?

OK do you really want to fly with Captain **** or is it worth the sort and verification that your no-fly list actually gets considered.

I know let's do it this way; just allow the computer to make one run and then publish the results. Then let the buyer beware and individual pilot sort through the list of results and see if they got screwed or not.

If so let the results be grieved and sent to the system board for review two months later.

I'd say for most the five day wait has proven to be far less costly than letting the chips fall where they may.

I believe the points made were as examples of why the system is not a very good one. Why does it take so long? Because the vendor and UAL are too cheap to improve the system. That won't happen till we make it a priority at ALPA.

Schedules so late in the month are a very real problem. One that should be addressed along with not honoring seniority and others. I for one am not willing to just sit and accept a sub standard product.

Along with these problems, the PBS gurus seem to be drinking the koolaid. They essentially say that this is the way the system works, suck it up and learn the system. It should not be working this way. I have learned the system. When you finally figure out how it works, you way to yourself, why in the world did we accept this POS?

The date is negotiated. And it is earlier then we used to get under C2000 and using traditional line building.

And recall that under C2000 you could only be awarded a max of 81 hours (83 in a flex month) and also had a BANK for anything over 85 credit hours. So your monthly take home pay was capped at 85 hours a month.

How many of our pilots would like to go back to that line building?

I seem to remember at sUA, in the last contract schedules were due by the 20th. The 17th is a 3-day improvement for some, what do you suggest?

Move the whole thing forward several weeks. The "late" bids at sUA were one of the contract concessions to enable "marketing" more time to play with their schedule.

Guess what? If marketing does not have plan for October by August we've found the problem.

Other airlines have their PBS awards before we even see the bid package. That's the real problem and a faster mainframe to run the PBS optimization is only a bonus and not the actual solution.

I used to remember making 1/2 of what we are making now and being to have our reserve days rolled to infinity and blah blah blah. Give me a break. For an FO, it's pitiful that their skeds can come out just 12 days before the start of a work month, where one might need to know what's going on for planning purposes. NO reason this shouldn't come out at least another week or two earlier WITHOUT giving up anything.

Are you suggesting that this has no value to the company, or are you suggesting that the company should just roll over to ALPA's request?

I think he's suggesting that collectively, we are a bunch of Mr Loopner's.

I'm the furthest thing from being an apologist for PBS. I'm just pointing out that it's three days better than it used to be, and that's a start

Why can't PBS be programmed to allow a no fly list from the start?

How can it AVOID, or AWARD, trips with a particular Captain if the Captain's haven't been awarded their trips yet?

Also, a percentage of the trips awarded to LCAs are withheld from F/Os per the UPA. Can't withhold those trips until you know which trips will be awarded to the LCAs.

AFTER the Captains get their lines. My point was why can't the software do this.

I guess I don't understand the question. PBS does do what it seems to me that you are asking.

The way it was explained to me, it sounded like there was a fair amount of human interaction with the lines once the Captains received their schedules. Dunno...

Pretty sure that is not correct....at least with the current system.

Which is another concern of PBS... not transparent enough.

Not really complaining... too much I guess. Just seems like it is too convoluted and slow. I'm sure it could be worse.

I don't think so.

There may be some verification steps done after the Captain awards are complete before the F/O run begins but I don't know.

The F/O run will take somewhat longer than the Captain run just because there are more F/Os than Captains.

It would be nice if the process timeline was moved up a few days so that the awards were complet sooner. Also, keep the F/O bids open until the Captain's award is about to come out. No reason to cut the F/Os off a couple of days before their award will start to process.