Bumps
04-02-2017, 04:20 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,315
Originally Posted by Lurchi
Forgive my ignorance, but what is a "bump" and how will it impact a new hire...if at all?
04-02-2017, 04:50 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 854
Originally Posted by hummingbear
Very unlikely to have any impact on a new hire unless he was hired into a more senior aircraft, like the 756. Then, he could end up getting bumped back down to 737/320. But I don't think we've sent new hires to that fleet for some time now...
1707V has 0 756 vacancies unfilled but 1704V had 31.
04-02-2017, 06:26 AM
#33
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 35
Updated Information on Displacements
The following report is from the System Schedule Committee's Manpower Subcommittee
Displacements
With the completion of the 747 phase-out NPDM (reference the March SSC report to the MEC) along with the company’s new surplus announcements for the Phase out of the SFO 747 Categories the SSC has modified our previous Displacement message to again address some concerns. Also of note is the company’s disclosure of a reduction in services coming in GUM but this has not been analyzed with the SSC for its manpower effect yet.
“Displacement”, “Bump” and “Surplus” are all interchangeable terms for the process that occurs when the company determines there is an excess of pilots in a Category. Every pilot involved in or just concerned with the process should read section 8-E of the United Pilot Agreement. If you haven’t read that section, you probably won’t realize some important details and protections with the displacement process.
Also some incorrect information has been circulated recently referencing section 8-F-9 of the UPA please disregard this as it has nothing to do with these types of displacements.
Summary on Displacements
· You can displace into any Category your seniority can hold unless that Category has been officially announced as closing.
· If you are named on the Surplus Letter you should bid at least one choice your seniority will definitely hold at 100%.
· Conditional bids are based on the published MIN; be very careful when using conditional bids.
· You cannot be displaced unless you are named on a Surplus Letter or you volunteer for displacement; there are no “automatic” or “blind” displacements.
· Secondary and Tertiary displacements are just Primary displacements with a shorter bidding period and probably will never be used by the company
· If you volunteer for displacement, you will replace a junior pilot who is named on the Surplus Letter:
o That junior pilot’s seniority will be used to determine whether or not you can bump into the Category you desire. (except if you are displacing from a closing/phasing-out Category, such as SFO 747, then you use your own seniority)
o Your seniority will be used to determine whether or not your position in the Category meets your conditional bid percentage.
· If you are displaced either involuntarily or voluntarily you are eligible for a paid move in accordance with Section 10.
· If you are displaced either involuntarily or voluntarily you are not subject to any freeze.
· If you are involuntarily displaced you may be able to keep your vacation.
Surplus Letter and MIN-MAX Bulletin
There are two official documents published by the company for a displacement: the Surplus letter and the MIN-MAX bulletin. The required information for both is detailed in the UPA. The Surplus Letter details the Categories involved, the surplus closing date, the number of pilots being surplused, the list of pilots being surplused and the Junior Man in Operation matrix. The published number of pilots being displaced is the number of active pilots being displaced. Pilots in supervisory positions and pilots on leaves will still be displaced but they don’t count towards the number of pilots displaced from the Category.
If Displaced, where can you go?
You can displace into any Category your seniority can hold. The company cannot prevent you from displacing into a Category if there is an active pilot who is junior to you in that Category. To determine whether or not you can hold a Category, look at the Junior Man in Operation Matrix in the Surplus letter. The matrix shows the seniority number of the junior pilot in each Category (pilots on temporary hardship transfers section 21-W are not included). In Categories that the company is displacing pilots from two numbers are displayed: the bottom number is the seniority number of the most junior pilot in the Category prior to the surplus. The top number is the seniority number of the pilot who will become the most junior pilot in the Category after the surplus. If you are senior to the top number, you definitely have the seniority to displace into that Category. If you are senior to the bottom number, you might have the seniority to displace into the Category, depending on whether enough senior pilots in that Category volunteer for displacement.
The one exception to the above statement about what Category you can bump into occurs when a Category is being closed (phased out). To close a Category, the company must put out an official and explicit notice that the Category is closing (being phased out). Once that official announcement is made, pilots can no longer displace into that Category. The company has announced that SFO 747 Categories are being phased out (with NPDM complete) and therefore cannot be displaced into.
If you are named in the Surplus Letter…
If you are named in the Surplus Letter you should submit at least one bid choice at 100% for a Category you can hold based on the Junior Man in Operation matrix. If you fail to do so, the system will displace you in accordance with the displacement matrix. That matrix, as directed by the MEC, will try to put you in the highest paying Category in your current seat in your Base, then in the highest paying Category in your seat in the domicile that is geographically closest to your Base.
MIN-MAX Bulletin
The Vacancy MIN-MAX bulletin accompanies the Surplus Letter. It really doesn’t have any applicability to a displacement except to indicate from which Categories the company is displacing and to establish the number of pilots used when evaluating percentage bids. All other numbers are advisory only. As stated above, you can bump into any Category your seniority can hold. The MAX number for the Category has no effect on where you can bump!
Conditional Bidding with Displacements
The UPA allows you to put conditions on your displacement based on the percentage you’ll be in the Category. While percentage bidding can help you gain some control on quality of life as you bump, it can also have unexpected results. What causes the most confusion with percentage bidding is the fact that the calculation of the percentage you’ll be in the Category is based on where you fit in relative to the MIN and not the percentage based on the total number of pilots in the Category at the end of the displacement. You could end up having a conditional bid denied even though the final results make it appear as if your conditional bid could have been granted.
For example: you place a conditional bid to displace into a Category only if you’re in the 60th percentile. The Category has a published MIN of 100 pilots but its MAX (and actual number of pilots) is 110. As the system processes bids in strict seniority order, it sees you would be the 61st pilot in the Category. That would put you at 61% based on the MIN so your bid would be denied even though based on the final number of pilots in the Category you might be much better than 60%.
As a result of this, the SSC recommends you be very careful using percentage bidding. Even though you can bid down to the single percentile, your actual position can vary greatly. Think of the percentage bid in large chunks (thirds or quarters of the Category) instead. Plus, always bid at least one Category your seniority will definitely hold at 100%!
Secondary and Tertiary Displacements
Some pilots are under the mistaken belief that you will automatically be displaced from your Category if enough pilots bump in from other Categories to put your Category over the MAX number on the MIN-MAX bulletin. That is not true under the UPA. You can only be displaced if you are named on the Surplus letter or volunteer to be surplused. Other than that you cannot be displaced on that surplus notice. For example: if 50 pilots displace from SFO Categories to SFO 777, no SFO 777 pilots will be displaced on that notice. Of course, the company may decide they do not want that many pilots in SFO 777 and may issue another surplus notice but that process will not happen in conjunction with the first surplus notice; you cannot be displaced against your will unless you are named on a surplus letter. The UPA describes Secondary and Tertiary Displacements. Secondary and Tertiary Displacements are the exact same as a Primary Displacement except they don’t have to be open for bidding for as long. You will always have some time to enter a displacement bid before you are bumped.
Also, the likelihood the company ever uses Secondary or Tertiary Displacement process is slim to none. It is more likely if the company ever needs follow on displacements they will just use the Primary process.
Volunteering for Displacement
Volunteering when you ARE NOT NAMED on the Surplus Notice…
If you are in a Category for which a Surplus Notice has been published and you wish to be displaced, you may volunteer for displacement. To volunteer, all you need to do is put a check mark in the “Volunteer” box on the Displacement Bidding page in CCS. When you volunteer, you displace into a Category using the seniority of a pilot who was named on the Surplus Notice. The junior pilot’s seniority will only be used to determine if you can get into the Category you want to bump to. Once it’s been determined you can get into that Category using his seniority, your conditional bid percentage will be evaluated using your own seniority number.
For example: say you are #10 in your Category and the company is displacing 20 pilots (#81 – 100) from your 100 pilot Category. You volunteer for displacement into the MEM 727 CA Category at 30%. If no one senior to you has volunteered, you will bump using the seniority of pilot #81 and Pilot 81’s seniority number will be used to determine whether or not you can get into the MEM 727 CA Category. After it is determined that he is senior enough to hold that Category, your seniority number will be used to calculate whether or not you’ll be in the top 30% of that Category in order to satisfy your conditional bid. Your volunteer displacement will only be granted if his seniority will allow you into the Category AND your seniority will satisfy the conditional bid. In that case, you will be displaced in pilot 81’s place and he will remain in your Category. If either one of the conditions is not satisfied, that displacement bid will be denied. If you have any other choices entered they will be evaluated in the same fashion. If all of them fail, you will remain in your Category and pilot 81 will still be displaced (unless someone else senior to him volunteers and takes his place). If his seniority is not such that it will allow you to get into that Category, even if your seniority would allow it, your bid will be denied and pilot 81 will still be surplused.
Volunteering when YOU ARE named on the Surplus Notice…
If you are named on the Surplus Notice and no one senior to you volunteers to take your place, you will bump using your own seniority.
If you are named on the Surplus Notice you may still want to check the box to volunteer so your displacement bid will be evaluated even if someone senior volunteers to take your place. Your bid will be treated the same any other pilot volunteering for displacement. If a pilot senior to you uses your seniority to bump, you will have to use the seniority of a junior pilot who is on the Surplus Notice. If there is no pilot junior to you whose place has not been taken by a pilot senior to you, you will be in the unusual position of not being senior enough to get a bump.
Let’s use our example above except in this case, you are pilot 81. You have decided to check the “Volunteer” box. Pilot #10 has volunteered to bump and his conditional bid is satisfied. He has taken your place. But since you have volunteered, once the system gets to you it will evaluate your bids just like any other volunteer; it will try to find a pilot junior to you whose place has not already been taken and it will use his seniority to determine if you are senior to the junior pilot in the Category you want to go to and your own seniority to determine if your conditional bid can be granted. In our example, if 20 pilots senior to you volunteer for displacement, you will not be displaced even if you volunteer.
Bid Entry
The displacement bidding module is available in CCS>Bidding>Displacement Bidding during the bidding window, where pilots may enter their bid choices. We also recommend reviewing the company’s displacement bulletin, displacement letter, and bid entry module documentation which highlight some of the details regarding the displacement process. As always the UPA as always is the controlling document
Daily Snapshots
The company will post a snapshot of the surplus results every business day that the surplus is open. Because the snapshot only considers pilots who have actually entered bids, the results can change considerably from day to day. If you are one of the senior pilots on the named list and have not checked the volunteer box, you may show up on the snapshot one day and not on the next. This will happen as a result of pilots senior to you volunteering and then not volunteering to take your place. The results on the snapshot will become more accurate as the surplus closing date approaches and all pilots who are being displaced enter bids.
Paid Moves and Commuter Passes
All involuntary and voluntary displaced pilots are eligible for a paid move in accordance with Section 10 of the UPA. Section 10-C details several conditions for paid moves so you should review them if you are interested in a paid move. Assuming you meet those conditions, as part of this paid move entitlement you are also eligible for six months of NRPS passes between your old base or on-line residence and your new base. If you still haven’t moved after 6 months you are eligible for the highest priority of NRSA passes. If you are not changing base due to the displacement you are not eligible to receive commuter passes unless you demonstrate an actual intent to move to your base. One way to demonstrate intent would be to schedule a household goods survey. The above entitlements are different if you are going to or from GUM or moving from outside the CONUS. See Section 10 for details.
Freezes and Vacation
You are not subject to any freeze if you are displaced. This applies whether the displacement was voluntary or involuntary.
If you are involuntarily displaced you can keep your awarded vacation as long as you notify the company you want to keep the vacation and it fits around your training. See 11-F-6 for details.
Questions?
If you have questions about the Displacement process please send a PDR to the System Schedule – Manpower/Staffing box or email us directly at [email protected] (both go to the same place).
The following report is from the System Schedule Committee's Manpower Subcommittee
Displacements
With the completion of the 747 phase-out NPDM (reference the March SSC report to the MEC) along with the company’s new surplus announcements for the Phase out of the SFO 747 Categories the SSC has modified our previous Displacement message to again address some concerns. Also of note is the company’s disclosure of a reduction in services coming in GUM but this has not been analyzed with the SSC for its manpower effect yet.
“Displacement”, “Bump” and “Surplus” are all interchangeable terms for the process that occurs when the company determines there is an excess of pilots in a Category. Every pilot involved in or just concerned with the process should read section 8-E of the United Pilot Agreement. If you haven’t read that section, you probably won’t realize some important details and protections with the displacement process.
Also some incorrect information has been circulated recently referencing section 8-F-9 of the UPA please disregard this as it has nothing to do with these types of displacements.
Summary on Displacements
· You can displace into any Category your seniority can hold unless that Category has been officially announced as closing.
· If you are named on the Surplus Letter you should bid at least one choice your seniority will definitely hold at 100%.
· Conditional bids are based on the published MIN; be very careful when using conditional bids.
· You cannot be displaced unless you are named on a Surplus Letter or you volunteer for displacement; there are no “automatic” or “blind” displacements.
· Secondary and Tertiary displacements are just Primary displacements with a shorter bidding period and probably will never be used by the company
· If you volunteer for displacement, you will replace a junior pilot who is named on the Surplus Letter:
o That junior pilot’s seniority will be used to determine whether or not you can bump into the Category you desire. (except if you are displacing from a closing/phasing-out Category, such as SFO 747, then you use your own seniority)
o Your seniority will be used to determine whether or not your position in the Category meets your conditional bid percentage.
· If you are displaced either involuntarily or voluntarily you are eligible for a paid move in accordance with Section 10.
· If you are displaced either involuntarily or voluntarily you are not subject to any freeze.
· If you are involuntarily displaced you may be able to keep your vacation.
Surplus Letter and MIN-MAX Bulletin
There are two official documents published by the company for a displacement: the Surplus letter and the MIN-MAX bulletin. The required information for both is detailed in the UPA. The Surplus Letter details the Categories involved, the surplus closing date, the number of pilots being surplused, the list of pilots being surplused and the Junior Man in Operation matrix. The published number of pilots being displaced is the number of active pilots being displaced. Pilots in supervisory positions and pilots on leaves will still be displaced but they don’t count towards the number of pilots displaced from the Category.
If Displaced, where can you go?
You can displace into any Category your seniority can hold. The company cannot prevent you from displacing into a Category if there is an active pilot who is junior to you in that Category. To determine whether or not you can hold a Category, look at the Junior Man in Operation Matrix in the Surplus letter. The matrix shows the seniority number of the junior pilot in each Category (pilots on temporary hardship transfers section 21-W are not included). In Categories that the company is displacing pilots from two numbers are displayed: the bottom number is the seniority number of the most junior pilot in the Category prior to the surplus. The top number is the seniority number of the pilot who will become the most junior pilot in the Category after the surplus. If you are senior to the top number, you definitely have the seniority to displace into that Category. If you are senior to the bottom number, you might have the seniority to displace into the Category, depending on whether enough senior pilots in that Category volunteer for displacement.
The one exception to the above statement about what Category you can bump into occurs when a Category is being closed (phased out). To close a Category, the company must put out an official and explicit notice that the Category is closing (being phased out). Once that official announcement is made, pilots can no longer displace into that Category. The company has announced that SFO 747 Categories are being phased out (with NPDM complete) and therefore cannot be displaced into.
If you are named in the Surplus Letter…
If you are named in the Surplus Letter you should submit at least one bid choice at 100% for a Category you can hold based on the Junior Man in Operation matrix. If you fail to do so, the system will displace you in accordance with the displacement matrix. That matrix, as directed by the MEC, will try to put you in the highest paying Category in your current seat in your Base, then in the highest paying Category in your seat in the domicile that is geographically closest to your Base.
MIN-MAX Bulletin
The Vacancy MIN-MAX bulletin accompanies the Surplus Letter. It really doesn’t have any applicability to a displacement except to indicate from which Categories the company is displacing and to establish the number of pilots used when evaluating percentage bids. All other numbers are advisory only. As stated above, you can bump into any Category your seniority can hold. The MAX number for the Category has no effect on where you can bump!
Conditional Bidding with Displacements
The UPA allows you to put conditions on your displacement based on the percentage you’ll be in the Category. While percentage bidding can help you gain some control on quality of life as you bump, it can also have unexpected results. What causes the most confusion with percentage bidding is the fact that the calculation of the percentage you’ll be in the Category is based on where you fit in relative to the MIN and not the percentage based on the total number of pilots in the Category at the end of the displacement. You could end up having a conditional bid denied even though the final results make it appear as if your conditional bid could have been granted.
For example: you place a conditional bid to displace into a Category only if you’re in the 60th percentile. The Category has a published MIN of 100 pilots but its MAX (and actual number of pilots) is 110. As the system processes bids in strict seniority order, it sees you would be the 61st pilot in the Category. That would put you at 61% based on the MIN so your bid would be denied even though based on the final number of pilots in the Category you might be much better than 60%.
As a result of this, the SSC recommends you be very careful using percentage bidding. Even though you can bid down to the single percentile, your actual position can vary greatly. Think of the percentage bid in large chunks (thirds or quarters of the Category) instead. Plus, always bid at least one Category your seniority will definitely hold at 100%!
Secondary and Tertiary Displacements
Some pilots are under the mistaken belief that you will automatically be displaced from your Category if enough pilots bump in from other Categories to put your Category over the MAX number on the MIN-MAX bulletin. That is not true under the UPA. You can only be displaced if you are named on the Surplus letter or volunteer to be surplused. Other than that you cannot be displaced on that surplus notice. For example: if 50 pilots displace from SFO Categories to SFO 777, no SFO 777 pilots will be displaced on that notice. Of course, the company may decide they do not want that many pilots in SFO 777 and may issue another surplus notice but that process will not happen in conjunction with the first surplus notice; you cannot be displaced against your will unless you are named on a surplus letter. The UPA describes Secondary and Tertiary Displacements. Secondary and Tertiary Displacements are the exact same as a Primary Displacement except they don’t have to be open for bidding for as long. You will always have some time to enter a displacement bid before you are bumped.
Also, the likelihood the company ever uses Secondary or Tertiary Displacement process is slim to none. It is more likely if the company ever needs follow on displacements they will just use the Primary process.
Volunteering for Displacement
Volunteering when you ARE NOT NAMED on the Surplus Notice…
If you are in a Category for which a Surplus Notice has been published and you wish to be displaced, you may volunteer for displacement. To volunteer, all you need to do is put a check mark in the “Volunteer” box on the Displacement Bidding page in CCS. When you volunteer, you displace into a Category using the seniority of a pilot who was named on the Surplus Notice. The junior pilot’s seniority will only be used to determine if you can get into the Category you want to bump to. Once it’s been determined you can get into that Category using his seniority, your conditional bid percentage will be evaluated using your own seniority number.
For example: say you are #10 in your Category and the company is displacing 20 pilots (#81 – 100) from your 100 pilot Category. You volunteer for displacement into the MEM 727 CA Category at 30%. If no one senior to you has volunteered, you will bump using the seniority of pilot #81 and Pilot 81’s seniority number will be used to determine whether or not you can get into the MEM 727 CA Category. After it is determined that he is senior enough to hold that Category, your seniority number will be used to calculate whether or not you’ll be in the top 30% of that Category in order to satisfy your conditional bid. Your volunteer displacement will only be granted if his seniority will allow you into the Category AND your seniority will satisfy the conditional bid. In that case, you will be displaced in pilot 81’s place and he will remain in your Category. If either one of the conditions is not satisfied, that displacement bid will be denied. If you have any other choices entered they will be evaluated in the same fashion. If all of them fail, you will remain in your Category and pilot 81 will still be displaced (unless someone else senior to him volunteers and takes his place). If his seniority is not such that it will allow you to get into that Category, even if your seniority would allow it, your bid will be denied and pilot 81 will still be surplused.
Volunteering when YOU ARE named on the Surplus Notice…
If you are named on the Surplus Notice and no one senior to you volunteers to take your place, you will bump using your own seniority.
If you are named on the Surplus Notice you may still want to check the box to volunteer so your displacement bid will be evaluated even if someone senior volunteers to take your place. Your bid will be treated the same any other pilot volunteering for displacement. If a pilot senior to you uses your seniority to bump, you will have to use the seniority of a junior pilot who is on the Surplus Notice. If there is no pilot junior to you whose place has not been taken by a pilot senior to you, you will be in the unusual position of not being senior enough to get a bump.
Let’s use our example above except in this case, you are pilot 81. You have decided to check the “Volunteer” box. Pilot #10 has volunteered to bump and his conditional bid is satisfied. He has taken your place. But since you have volunteered, once the system gets to you it will evaluate your bids just like any other volunteer; it will try to find a pilot junior to you whose place has not already been taken and it will use his seniority to determine if you are senior to the junior pilot in the Category you want to go to and your own seniority to determine if your conditional bid can be granted. In our example, if 20 pilots senior to you volunteer for displacement, you will not be displaced even if you volunteer.
Bid Entry
The displacement bidding module is available in CCS>Bidding>Displacement Bidding during the bidding window, where pilots may enter their bid choices. We also recommend reviewing the company’s displacement bulletin, displacement letter, and bid entry module documentation which highlight some of the details regarding the displacement process. As always the UPA as always is the controlling document
Daily Snapshots
The company will post a snapshot of the surplus results every business day that the surplus is open. Because the snapshot only considers pilots who have actually entered bids, the results can change considerably from day to day. If you are one of the senior pilots on the named list and have not checked the volunteer box, you may show up on the snapshot one day and not on the next. This will happen as a result of pilots senior to you volunteering and then not volunteering to take your place. The results on the snapshot will become more accurate as the surplus closing date approaches and all pilots who are being displaced enter bids.
Paid Moves and Commuter Passes
All involuntary and voluntary displaced pilots are eligible for a paid move in accordance with Section 10 of the UPA. Section 10-C details several conditions for paid moves so you should review them if you are interested in a paid move. Assuming you meet those conditions, as part of this paid move entitlement you are also eligible for six months of NRPS passes between your old base or on-line residence and your new base. If you still haven’t moved after 6 months you are eligible for the highest priority of NRSA passes. If you are not changing base due to the displacement you are not eligible to receive commuter passes unless you demonstrate an actual intent to move to your base. One way to demonstrate intent would be to schedule a household goods survey. The above entitlements are different if you are going to or from GUM or moving from outside the CONUS. See Section 10 for details.
Freezes and Vacation
You are not subject to any freeze if you are displaced. This applies whether the displacement was voluntary or involuntary.
If you are involuntarily displaced you can keep your awarded vacation as long as you notify the company you want to keep the vacation and it fits around your training. See 11-F-6 for details.
Questions?
If you have questions about the Displacement process please send a PDR to the System Schedule – Manpower/Staffing box or email us directly at [email protected] (both go to the same place).
04-03-2017, 07:44 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: 787
Posts: 3,137
Originally Posted by rightside02
New hire class that starts on the 18th has 17 756 slots to new hires and I think 3 military returnees , fair to say these cats could get bumbed once all this shakes out ?
04-03-2017, 07:45 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,639
Originally Posted by rightside02
New hire class that starts on the 18th has 17 756 slots to new hires and I think 3 military returnees , fair to say these cats could get bumbed once all this shakes out ?
The 747 pilots (CAs and FOs) are all fairly senior and the bottom of the 756 list is junior by definition if it's going to new-hires. The thousands of positions in the middle of the list will easily absorb the bumps before it gets down to the bottom.
Besides, bumps take time to cascade from BES to BES and while all that is happening pilots are still retiring from the top creating a current in the opposite direction.
04-03-2017, 08:28 AM
#38
UCH Pilot
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: 787
Posts: 776
Originally Posted by cadetdrivr
Unlikely, IMHO.
The 747 pilots (CAs and FOs) are all fairly senior and the bottom of the 756 list is junior by definition if it's going to new-hires. The thousands of positions in the middle of the list will easily absorb the bumps before it gets down to the bottom.
Besides, bumps take time to cascade from BES to BES and while all that is happening pilots are still retiring from the top creating a current in the opposite direction.
The 747 pilots (CAs and FOs) are all fairly senior and the bottom of the 756 list is junior by definition if it's going to new-hires. The thousands of positions in the middle of the list will easily absorb the bumps before it gets down to the bottom.
Besides, bumps take time to cascade from BES to BES and while all that is happening pilots are still retiring from the top creating a current in the opposite direction.
Now if they close IAH 787 then THAT will cause secondary and tertiary displacements in IAH.
04-03-2017, 01:49 PM
#40
UCH Pilot
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: 787
Posts: 776
Originally Posted by tailwheel48
Not a particularly smart idea to post company bulletins on a public forum! I would suggest you take it down.
The "company" would never give us this much accurate information. They'd want us in the dark so they could do whatever they want to us.
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