Originally Posted by BeatNavy

Didn't know scorpions bit people.

Originally Posted by BizPilot

He has damaged the UAL brand and it will take years to recover.

The good news is that airline CEO's are a dime-a-dozen.

Originally Posted by ugleeual

he was just paid something like $30M in compensation/stocks this past year... I think his days are numbered after the PR nightmare.

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Maybe so, but can he be removed by force?

Originally Posted by Andy

Incorrect. They started overbooking a couple of years ago.

You might want to check JetBlue's IDB numbers ... IIRC, they're higher than United's.

Edit: found a link, although the raw DOT stats: http://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/ne...the-worst.html

Originally Posted by Greentips

49 CFR 830.1 Applicability.
(a) Initial notification and later reporting of aircraft incidents and accidents and certain other occurrences in the operation of aircraft, wherever they occur, when they involve civil aircraft of the United States; when they involve certain public aircraft, as specified in this part, wherever they occur; and when they involve foreign civil aircraft where the events occur in the United States, its territories, or its possessions.
(b) Preservation of aircraft wreckage, mail, cargo, and records involving all civil and certain public aircraft accidents, as specified in this part, in the United States and its territories or possessions.

Part 830.2

Definitions: Aircraft accident means an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or in which the aircraft receives substantial damage.

and

Serious injury means any injury which: (1) Requires hospitalization for more than 48 hours, commencing within 7 days from the date of the injury was received; (2) results in a fracture of any bone (except simple fractures of fingers, toes, or nose); (3) causes severe hemorrhages, nerve, muscle, or tendon damage; (4) involves any internal organ; or (5) involves second- or third-degree burns, or any burns affecting more than 5 percent of the body surface.

and

And 830.5 The operator of any civil aircraft, or any public aircraft not operated by the Armed Forces or an intelligence agency of the United States, or any foreign aircraft shall immediately, and by the most expeditious means available, notify the nearest National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) office, when:
(a)An aircraft accident or any of the following listed serious incidents occur.

The NTSB definitions of intention of flight means, that time when any passenger or crew embarks until the time when the last passenger or crew disembarks the aircraft. There is no need for the flight to actually take place, merely that there was an intention of flight.

This is the way it was explained to me when vacuum tubes ran the radios during my basic indoc. I suspect that this has not changed.

b52tdlr cited the UA FM which delineates the captain's responsibility concerning the pre-departure activities.

So, recap:

There was an airplane at the gate at ORD, a scheduled flight in that airplane, a crew was on board, with the intent to fly the airplane to SDF. The fact that the airplane actually flew to SDF is all the proof the ALJ will need.

There was a change in plans by the airline which resulted in an event, in which an embarked passenger (in front of a plane full of witnesses) suffered serious injuries, which are by now very well documented. This also is beyond dispute. Who did what and why is not exactly relevant at this point. The fact is: a passenger was seriously injured, had broken bones and soft tissue injuries and was hospitalized for multiple days. And it happened on the aircraft before all passengers and crew intending to fly were deplaned.

You were correct in saying that the best process for getting this passenger off the airplane would be for the captain/crew to deplane the entire manifest and the crew, and walk off the airplane and re-board. Then we have ended the intent to fly issue because the NTSB definition ends the matter when the last soul is off the airplane.

And we get to start over. But if that had happened, this discussion wouldn't exist. But it didn't, and this discussion exists.

A passenger boarded an aircraft for which the captain and crew have the ultimate authority and responsibility for the safety of the flight. The passenger was safe and uninjured until someone acting for some reason removed him by force, causing injuries. This meets the definition and a report must be filed to the NTSB ops center by telephone by the company or the crew by the most expeditious means possible.

Any bets that phone call was not made? And hasn't been made? Who's responsible? You can guess. . .

Originally Posted by tom11011

Originally Posted by LNL76

Oh, CBreezy....where are you?

I accept your apology.

Originally Posted by CBreezy

I was going to admit guilt when I read that earlier this week but this thread had run off the rails. I am curious as to why they have the largest amount of involuntary denied boarding for an airline that never overbooks. Good for them though.