757Driver

Incorrect, they pay $245 we pay $242.84.

Incorrect on both counts as well. A bit? I'd say $50/ hour is more than a bit and the CS-100 is configured to fly with 108-130 while our 737-700's hold 118. Both aircraft should pay exactly the same or are we back in concessionary mode to help Scott out?

Half wing

190.75 is incorrect. I'm showing $199.19. Also, b**** and moan all you want. We are probably going to end up with a hundred seater. So while you complain, I will work on getting the rates higher for it.

Half wing

Incorrect, we pay $253.58. I'd hate to see you read a performance chart. UA wouldn't configure a CS-100 with 130 seats any more than we would put 150 on a 737-700.

757Driver

Please do and you are correct on the rates, apologies but the CS-100 is outlandishly low. Why these ridiculously low rates were approved in the first place just reveals the ignorance of our negotiating committee. Point of this whole thing is we'd be flying 1/4 of those 737-700 airframes RIGHT NOW making industry leading rates.

PS, performance charts were never my thing and thank god for ACARS !!

webecheck

The contract is what the contract is unfortunately. We use it all the time against mgmt, why on earth would they not exploit what they can against us? So is your argument to turn away an aircraft that makes us more competitive against Dal because the rates lag? Or do we take the aircraft, fill the capacity gap, start competing, and then address the pay on the next contract? Or just complain on message boards because in reality mgmt can do what they want so long as it's inline with the contract? I doubt anyone is happy the cs100 pays less than a 700 and so much less than delta, but conversely all the 787 and 764 guys are happy their banding earns them more than delta pilots. Pick your battles then...because none of those pilots would ever be in favor of removing the pay band in order to gain some cs100 rate increase. Another thing I am certain of, everyone I talk to wants mainline jobs to grow and for the airline to compete more effectively. Cs100 can satisfy both.

757Driver

Were the -700's really that bad? Delta flys ancient equipment around all day at full pay and I don't see too many of their guys complaining.

Once again the "we'll get 'em next time" crowd is all a flutter and salivating at being underpaid for the umpteenth time.

webecheck

Lol. There really isn't a choice to get them until the next contract anyway so what's the point of arguing it?

Delta has an order to replace their ancient equipment, just like we could do, so if we lose against them with mad dogs and 717s, imagine how bad we'd lose with 700s against their new c series.

Sorry, I don't want to be a loser because I'm wrapped up in worry about $40 difference on an airplane I won't fly while the ones I can fly(cal stuff that got banded higher than it should be) allows me the opportunity to make more than my peers at delta.

You look at things very myopically and are constantly negative.

If the company offered to pay the c series exactly what delta gets so long as we give up some dollars on the 78 and 764, do you take it?

Grumble

You completely missed the point of my post, which is why I said it to begin with. You can't look past the pay rates now to see what will be competitive in 10+ years. Youre playing checkers while everyone else is playing chess.

Dragon7

Doubt we will see the C series for the reasons noted previously on cost. Too many used Airbii out there to fill that niche in whatever the fleet plan becomes. But going down the C series road, in theory I agree with the concept that no FO should make More than a Captain hourly, but in the real world if those airplanes come, my read is my chances to fly it are way better than my shot at a widebody FO seat anytime soon. So will I take the $28 dollar an hour pay raise and focus on that more than the $38 pay raise I might get for the Widebody FO seat I can't hold in base. First world problems.
Then I will advocate for and support our Negotiating Committee to attempt to improve that situation somewhere in the mire of daily minimum, LTD, sick call, reserve improvements, and percentage increase, to name a few. I doubt I will get all I want, but will get some. And as a group the contract will improve. And I personally will cheer if we can bring a whole group of Express folks over to fly it and get them industry wages on our payroll.

I suspect I will be fine with however it works out. My pool doesn't judge me by my hourly rate.

CLazarus

Am I crazy? So, some guys are snarling about how low our C Series pay rates are. Meanwhile other guys are pooping on the C Series for being a gold plated surefire failure and way too expensive to buy. And yet, DAL has somehow figured out how to pay its CS pilots more than us while buying them for more than we think they are worth. DAL Bankruptcy ahead! "Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue"

(Disclaimer - yes I know DAL as a marquee customer got a hefty discount just like we could have had. I just think the juxtaposition of the two arguments is amusing).