In need of advice
05-20-2018, 09:46 PM
#31
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Joined APC: Aug 2017
Position: .
Posts: 82
Originally Posted by ugleeual
if you get hired by SWA make the decision then... until that occurs no reason to bust your brain thinking of "what ifs". I've never commuted... but have heard how painful it is to be a commuter out of FL.
05-20-2018, 10:47 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Posts: 256
1. I tell guys all the time to compare the contracts. No-brainer.
2. There is a reason why there is a FB page called "I quit SWA"...
3. At 1.5 years in, have you considered moving bases...? What's the commute like to IAD/IAH, etc.? ****, you'd be at 60% or so 737 FO here in SFO....no weekends but you can easily get commutable lines. Double commute...possible.
4. For me, no way I'd live in Orlando while commuting. Competing with revenue pax plus non-rev, no thanks.
5. What if SWA, in the next 5 years, leaves MCO...?
2. There is a reason why there is a FB page called "I quit SWA"...
3. At 1.5 years in, have you considered moving bases...? What's the commute like to IAD/IAH, etc.? ****, you'd be at 60% or so 737 FO here in SFO....no weekends but you can easily get commutable lines. Double commute...possible.
4. For me, no way I'd live in Orlando while commuting. Competing with revenue pax plus non-rev, no thanks.
5. What if SWA, in the next 5 years, leaves MCO...?
05-21-2018, 03:43 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 588
Originally Posted by T6 Pilot
1. I tell guys all the time to compare the contracts. No-brainer.
2. There is a reason why there is a FB page called "I quit SWA"...
3. At 1.5 years in, have you considered moving bases...? What's the commute like to IAD/IAH, etc.? ****, you'd be at 60% or so 737 FO here in SFO....no weekends but you can easily get commutable lines. Double commute...possible.
4. For me, no way I'd live in Orlando while commuting. Competing with revenue pax plus non-rev, no thanks.
5. What if SWA, in the next 5 years, leaves MCO...?
2. There is a reason why there is a FB page called "I quit SWA"...
3. At 1.5 years in, have you considered moving bases...? What's the commute like to IAD/IAH, etc.? ****, you'd be at 60% or so 737 FO here in SFO....no weekends but you can easily get commutable lines. Double commute...possible.
4. For me, no way I'd live in Orlando while commuting. Competing with revenue pax plus non-rev, no thanks.
5. What if SWA, in the next 5 years, leaves MCO...?
05-21-2018, 04:21 AM
#34
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Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 588
Originally Posted by Aquaticus
Florida bases will also be more senior due to tax reasons as people progress down the seniority list and start making more they start looking for ways to send less to uncle sam. You are looking at 6 months to a year to hold MCO at SWA and then you are low man on the totem pole forever. It is the second most senior base there, much longer upgrade, much longer reserve, and always on the 737. I can't look that far down the road but you are probably looking at (WAG) an additional decade in the right seat at SWA vs UAL if you are holding out for MCO. Some of my friends that were hired recently are projecting a 12-15 yr upgrade from a somewhat pessimistic viewpoint. That is probably a 1.5 million dollar difference in income if you bid earliest upgrade at UAL. If you don't take the earliest upgrade you will still have a better QOL vs SWA by being a much higher % FO in a very junior base like EWR (10% EWR @ UAL vs 50% MCO @ SWA). Driving to work is awesome but driving to work 15 days a month vs commuting to 12-13 days a month... that to me seems like a wash.
Does your SO work? Will she down the road when you are making more or have kids or dislikes her job? Is money involved in this equation? The career potential before you at United is pretty staggering if the party continues a few more years. I am senior to you by about 6 months and in EWR on the 73 I can trade for 18-20 days off and about 70-75 credit every month.
Commuting sucks but your earnings at United will be easier on your body and this is a marathon when you get in it at such a young age. You will burn yourself out flying 80-90 hrs of multi-leg days at SWA. You can also find a more diverse fleet and trip mix to fit your interests at UAL. I think in the near term the earnings difference between SWA and UAL is negligible but the type and variety of flying is completely different and you will be paid more to commute in the long run. You will have the same tax benefits of living in Florida while being based in EWR and not paying the 6.5% income tax in NJ which makes EWR a junior base which will pay dividends your whole career. Even if you bought tickets and stayed at the Marriot before trips you are still ahead in career earnings.
I rambled but either one is a pretty great spot to be but it really comes down to what you want out of life. UAL could buy Frontier tomorrow and bam... MCO here you come. This industry is nuts.
Does your SO work? Will she down the road when you are making more or have kids or dislikes her job? Is money involved in this equation? The career potential before you at United is pretty staggering if the party continues a few more years. I am senior to you by about 6 months and in EWR on the 73 I can trade for 18-20 days off and about 70-75 credit every month.
Commuting sucks but your earnings at United will be easier on your body and this is a marathon when you get in it at such a young age. You will burn yourself out flying 80-90 hrs of multi-leg days at SWA. You can also find a more diverse fleet and trip mix to fit your interests at UAL. I think in the near term the earnings difference between SWA and UAL is negligible but the type and variety of flying is completely different and you will be paid more to commute in the long run. You will have the same tax benefits of living in Florida while being based in EWR and not paying the 6.5% income tax in NJ which makes EWR a junior base which will pay dividends your whole career. Even if you bought tickets and stayed at the Marriot before trips you are still ahead in career earnings.
I rambled but either one is a pretty great spot to be but it really comes down to what you want out of life. UAL could buy Frontier tomorrow and bam... MCO here you come. This industry is nuts.
Upgrade is about 10yrs right now. It is expected to come down to the 6-7 yr mark by many. That’s crystal ball stuff at any airline though since no one knows the future, but at current growth it should come down. It would be longer for MCO CA. A senior FO can make as much as a new captian though.
I’m still new at SW (first year), but I’m already off reserve and can easily get 18+ days off a month with 100+ credit. I did 16days off with 125cr recently. You would only drive to work 15days a month at SW in any base if you are on reserve. I’m not based in MCO though, so it might be slightly different.
Some other things for the OP to know:
We bid for hard lines instead of PBS, so that is much different. I was unsure how I would enjoy it vs PBS, but I love it. The typical line for my base is 3on/4off. Typical credit is 90-100 to start. Most 3 day trips I have been doing are 2-3 legs / day with the occational 1 leg day or 4 leg day. Trips are constructed as 1-4 day trips. There is some variety with the Caribbean turns, etc. However, there is now doubt there would be more variety at UAL with multiple airplane types and many international destinations. It all depends on what you want. Living near base with high qol is huge though. I had a CJO at UA, and like the OP, I chose SW for commuting reasons. There is no way to KNOW which one you prefer without working for both companies. Unfortunatly, you can’t really “undo” if you like your last gig better, lol. Both are great companies, but my qol at SW has been outstanding. With all that said, it would be an incredibly tough decision to leave UAL with a 1.5 year in. I know how hard it was for me with just newbie job offers. Compare both contract complely, talk to a lot of SW pilots. Most of all though, think of the big picture and don’t get caugt up in too many the details that may not be that important. Good luck!
05-21-2018, 07:27 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 854
Originally Posted by T6 Pilot
4. For me, no way I'd live in Orlando while commuting. Competing with revenue pax plus non-rev, no thanks.
05-21-2018, 07:50 AM
#38
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Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
How big are you?
If you're over 6' and 200 pounds, or on your way there you'll hate the guppy after a few years. I am both and have flown it twice at UA, for about two years each time. I also had horrible back issues during those two time periods. Perhaps just a coincidence, perhaps not.
I can't imagine flying one for 20+ years, let alone 30.
Widebody flying isn't for everyone. But before you leap look at 12 year WB pay and schedules and don't forget to add 16%. There are two airlines at UA.
Good luck. Tough decision.
If you're over 6' and 200 pounds, or on your way there you'll hate the guppy after a few years. I am both and have flown it twice at UA, for about two years each time. I also had horrible back issues during those two time periods. Perhaps just a coincidence, perhaps not.
I can't imagine flying one for 20+ years, let alone 30.
Widebody flying isn't for everyone. But before you leap look at 12 year WB pay and schedules and don't forget to add 16%. There are two airlines at UA.
Good luck. Tough decision.
05-21-2018, 08:06 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,193
Originally Posted by Skyward
Your #1 would surprise you and could fall either way. Your #5 is very unlikely. It doesn’t mean they won’t ever, but SW has never closed a base... or furloughed one person. They’re pretty proud of that, but doesn’t mean it can’t happen. I would guess an additional FL base before I would guess that SW would leave MCO though.
05-21-2018, 08:31 AM
#40
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 27
Thanks for all of the wonderful perspective, guys!
In response to some of the posts and to clarify some things: I'm single and don't have any kids yet, so commuting and time away from home at this moment isn't much of an issue.
I just turned 27 in May, so having a good 38 years left in the career under current rules is also something I'm factoring into my decision making. Would't lose too much on longevity if I make the move now.
I am 5'8" and at the moment fly the 737 our of EWR, so as long as I preserve my hearing I hope to be okay. Haha
As far as flying the 737 for the rest of my career, I don't think I'd mind it.
I really appreciate everyone's advice thus far.
In response to some of the posts and to clarify some things: I'm single and don't have any kids yet, so commuting and time away from home at this moment isn't much of an issue.
I just turned 27 in May, so having a good 38 years left in the career under current rules is also something I'm factoring into my decision making. Would't lose too much on longevity if I make the move now.
Originally Posted by oldmako
How big are you?
If you're over 6' and 200 pounds, or on your way there you'll hate the guppy after a few years. I am both and have flown it twice at UA, for about two years each time. I also had horrible back issues during those two time periods. Perhaps just a coincidence, perhaps not.
I can't imagine flying one for 20+ years, let alone 30.
Widebody flying isn't for everyone. But before you leap look at 12 year WB pay and schedules and don't forget to add 16%. There are two airlines at UA.
Good luck. Tough decision.
If you're over 6' and 200 pounds, or on your way there you'll hate the guppy after a few years. I am both and have flown it twice at UA, for about two years each time. I also had horrible back issues during those two time periods. Perhaps just a coincidence, perhaps not.
I can't imagine flying one for 20+ years, let alone 30.
Widebody flying isn't for everyone. But before you leap look at 12 year WB pay and schedules and don't forget to add 16%. There are two airlines at UA.
Good luck. Tough decision.
Originally Posted by Regularguy
If you leave for SWA you’ll make those below you at UAL happy. Do yourself a favor and check the seniority list at SWA, especially the average ages of those who are Captains. I assume at some point you want to be the left seat some day?
Personally I don’t like commuting and I commute. Reason: no international wide body flying with associated days off in DEN.
Personally I don’t like commuting and I commute. Reason: no international wide body flying with associated days off in DEN.
I really appreciate everyone's advice thus far.
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