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Originally Posted by Softpayman
(Post 2618636)
Economic migrants are not granted asylum.
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Originally Posted by baseball
(Post 2618653)
A right and proper deterrent would be adequate border security and properly enforced immigration laws. We are either a nation of law and order, or we are in chaos.
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Asylum is granted only if your persecuted due to you political views! Not because you want to make a better life for you and your kids! It's right in the Geneva convention and signed by all modern societies. Everyone of these asylum seekers is gonna be denied because they didn't apply in Mexico! Which isn't persecuting them! If Trump plays this out right Mexico could be on the hook for these fellons... kids and all!
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Originally Posted by detpilot
(Post 2618140)
You're right, this county doesn't oppress people of color. Where on earth would he get that idea from? /sarcasm
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk Funny how so-called "progressives" favor larger, more intrusive and oppressive centralized controls over everyone's life. |
Can we just run an airline
Unfortunately, we have a CEO who has put his employees in a hard spot because of his personal feelings or beliefs...not because of his fiduciary duty to the company.
There will be cases where children are being transported without their parents in the company of another adult....like a Cps agent. There may also repercussions when time comes to renew service contracts with the various gov agencies. None of this is about enhancing revenue or improving safety. And of course now the employees are again placed in a spot where they may be asked about their CEO' political views. I think Oscar would be well suited to the top job at Red Cross or UNICEF, where profits are ignored and political activism is expected. |
Originally Posted by BMEP100
(Post 2618696)
Unfortunately, we have a CEO who has put his employees in a hard spot because of his personal feelings or beliefs...not because of his fiduciary duty to the company.
There will be cases where children are being transported without their parents in the company of another adult....like a Cps agent. There may also repercussions when time comes to renew service contracts with the various gov agencies. None of this is about enhancing revenue or improving safety. And of course now the employees are again placed in a spot where they may be asked about their CEO' political views. I think Oscar would be well suited to the top job at Red Cross or UNICEF, where profits are ignored and political activism is expected. FT https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/im...ildren-n885086 |
Originally Posted by BMEP100
(Post 2618696)
Unfortunately, we have a CEO who has put his employees in a hard spot because of his personal feelings or beliefs...not because of his fiduciary duty to the company.
There will be cases where children are being transported without their parents in the company of another adult....like a Cps agent. There may also repercussions when time comes to renew service contracts with the various gov agencies. None of this is about enhancing revenue or improving safety. And of course now the employees are again placed in a spot where they may be asked about their CEO' political views. I think Oscar would be well suited to the top job at Red Cross or UNICEF, where profits are ignored and political activism is expected. |
Originally Posted by BMEP100
(Post 2618696)
Unfortunately, we have a CEO who has put his employees in a hard spot because of his personal feelings or beliefs...not because of his fiduciary duty to the company.
There will be cases where children are being transported without their parents in the company of another adult....like a Cps agent. There may also repercussions when time comes to renew service contracts with the various gov agencies. None of this is about enhancing revenue or improving safety. And of course now the employees are again placed in a spot where they may be asked about their CEO' political views. I think Oscar would be well suited to the top job at Red Cross or UNICEF, where profits are ignored and political activism is expected. |
I have always stood for securing our border because without borders, you have no nation. But this policy is against our ethics and the core of what America and Americans are about. I have never been more embarrassed to be an American! We have national leadership that are a bunch of idiots.
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Originally Posted by DashTrash
(Post 2618768)
I have always stood for securing our border because without borders, you have no nation. But this policy is against our ethics and the core of what America and Americans are about. I have never been more embarrassed to be an American! We have national leadership that are a bunch of idiots.
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Originally Posted by baseball
(Post 2618242)
Anyone who breaks US immigration laws and enters here illegally should be sent back ASAP.
We have people breaking into the country with kids, and often times, it's not their own kids. Some kids are being exploited, used as shields, and some trafficked illegally for sex and slave shops. Anyone who breaks the law, with a kid, or not should go back. You have to separate them at least for a period of time in order to conduct a proper investigation to see who's kids they really are. At some point, you're gonna have to send the kids back to their rightful parents. Probably safer on a plane than on a bus...……. Oscar should stay in his lane. Enforce the border laws and just abide by the law. Oscar....For the love of all things sacred and holy, please stop pandering to the politically correct. Enough already. |
Originally Posted by Barley
(Post 2618735)
I can’t believe you’re worried that saying no to business that’s immoral, vile, and inhumane may risk future business with government contracts. Have a backbone for gods sake. Standing up for what’s right isn’t going to hurt the business and thankfully this belligerent administration has an expiration date.
Are you kidding me, drama queen? So who else won't you carry? Vietnam Veterans, pedophiles in police custody, maybe some former DNC officials? Where was your outrage three years ago, when the last administration was doing the same thing? Maybe the "peace train" needs an engineer.. Just remember when you get that measly profit sharing check that is 1/5 of Delta.... Our new slogan....."we fly moral". (according to Oscar..hail Oscar) |
Originally Posted by BMEP100
(Post 2618795)
Where was your outrage three years ago, when the last administration was doing the same thing?
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Originally Posted by Flytolive
(Post 2618805)
Repeating lies won't make them true.
Fact is the Obama administration kept children with their detained parents and then they were sued on the basis that Obama was using this as a deterrent to illegal immigration. Now the "resist" camp is saying you can't separate parents from their children.....It leaves only one solution which is what the left really wants, to release the parents w/children. Can we at least be honest and agree that this is what the left wants? |
I promise to give good service
I have to remember sometimes what Oscar really stands for and that most of what he says about his social justice agenda is just blather designed to bring attention and praise from the Progressives to himself. He's not purposely trying to antagonize our government leaders and half the country's population.
However, if one of those little brown kids slips through the Munoz moralist phalanx and wants to ride on my flight, I promise to give her/him a safe comfortable flight in conditions that far exceed the hell their irresponsible parents put them through to get here. |
Originally Posted by MaxQ
(Post 2618600)
A large number of these people are not just from a poor country. Some are fleeing for their lives.
Also a reality for all of them that is completely ignored, (probably because it would require volumes of books and research to fully grasp) is that there is no country in Central America that is completely sovereign in the sense that people raised in the states think of it. Their economies, (ie job opportunities, cost of food, availability of health care etc) are by and large a subset of what has been set up for them (IMF, trade agreements written by multinational corp, world bank, mining and logging rights...the list is long). Their governments have learned that they not only must be friendly, they must agree to whatever conditions that the US demands, so they agree. Any dissent that becomes organized will be dealt with; often with lethal force outside an official govt role. (I have a friend from Guatemala whose mother bought he and his brother here some years ago in just such a situation...his father had been murdered and she was informed they were next when they got around to it) It is complicated beyond my bits of knowledge and no one is saying making open borders. But it is ignorant and dishonest to pretend that the USA is not part of the reasons for why people are trying to migrate. |
Originally Posted by Barley
(Post 2618735)
I can’t believe you’re worried that saying no to business that’s immoral, vile, and inhumane may risk future business with government contracts. Have a backbone for gods sake. Standing up for what’s right isn’t going to hurt the business and thankfully this belligerent administration has an expiration date.
Also it's gonna be a long six years for people like you. |
Originally Posted by Softpayman
(Post 2618808)
Fact is the Obama administration kept children with their detained parents and then they were sued on the basis that Obama was using this as a deterrent to illegal immigration. Now the "resist" camp is saying you can't separate parents from their children.....It leaves only one solution which is what the left really wants, to release the parents w/children.
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Originally Posted by DashTrash
(Post 2618768)
I have always stood for securing our border because without borders, you have no nation. But this policy is against our ethics and the core of what America and Americans are about. I have never been more embarrassed to be an American! We have national leadership that are a bunch of idiots.
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Originally Posted by BMEP100
(Post 2618795)
. "Business that's immoral?
Are you kidding me, drama queen? So who else won't you carry? Vietnam Veterans, pedophiles in police custody, maybe some former DNC officials? Where was your outrage three years ago, when the last administration was doing the same thing? Maybe the "peace train" needs an engineer.. Just remember when you get that measly profit sharing check that is 1/5 of Delta.... Our new slogan....."we fly moral". (according to Oscar..hail Oscar) Still, a coherent and logical argument would be refreshing. It seems the faux news crowd has abandoned reason and hopes to sway opinion by simply repeating flawed logic. Like a stupid American who can't speak the local language, the flawed arguments are just repeated louder & louder in a futile attempts pacify themselves. |
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
(Post 2618828)
I'm embarrassed by people like you who beehive left wing talking points and propaganda. Cowards.
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Originally Posted by awax
(Post 2618835)
Pot, meet kettle.
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Originally Posted by Flytolive
(Post 2618827)
Exactly how it was handled under the Bush Administration and the first 15 months of the Trump administration. They did an extremely poor job of planning, organizing and implementing the easily predictable repercussions of their changes. Gross incompetence and heartlessness.
I'm glad we have a President willing to prevent the practice by closing the loopholes and gaps in the frontier.....even while those special BB interests and their unwitting mindless minions on the left march with the ,it's not fair banner". How does it feel to be a tool of the swamp? |
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
(Post 2618841)
That's funny considering what you posted two posts ago.
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Originally Posted by BMEP100
(Post 2618846)
How does it feel to be a tool of the swamp?
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Originally Posted by awax
(Post 2618852)
Funny because I pointed out your inability to debate a point without using the lazy crutch of flawed arguments?
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Originally Posted by Flytolive
(Post 2618875)
on this humanitarian crisis?.
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Originally Posted by Slaphappy
(Post 2618883)
What crisis?
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Originally Posted by Flytolive
(Post 2618894)
I call systematically separating 2,500 children, .sometimes permanently, from their parents a humanitarian crisis.
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Originally Posted by Slaphappy
(Post 2618882)
I use facts to debate a point.
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Originally Posted by Slaphappy
(Post 2618897)
I call it the failure of criminal parents. Hopefully it lets those in central America know we mean business now.
Even through your amazing economy for language the real story is evident. Trump plays people like you like a fiddle. |
Originally Posted by Chief Brody
(Post 2618039)
Where were all you virtual signalers during the reign of Obama??
Here Are The Photos Of Obama?s Illegal Immigrant Detention Facilities The Media Won?t Show You | The Daily Caller https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-caller/ Notes: The Daily Caller is an American news and opinion website based in Washington, D.C.. It was founded by Tucker Carlson, a libertarian conservative political pundit, and Neil Patel, former adviser to former Vice President Dick Cheney. The Daily Caller produces sensational headlines and has a right wing bias in reporting and has made false claims according to Snopes and Politifact. (7/19/2016) Updated (4/21/2017) Aside from that, a quick check on the credited photographer from Getty shows no such images by that name. I call BS. |
Fact-Checking the Trump Administration’s Case for Child Separation at the Border
The president, the attorney general and the secretary of homeland security have used lots of figures and interpretations of recent history to explain recent policy changes. Not all of it has been accurate. Linda Qiu By Linda Qiu June 19, 2018 President Trump and top administration officials have continued to defend their practice of breaking up families who arrive at the border in the face of bipartisan outcry, criticism from the United Nations and a lawsuit. They’ve denied the existence of a policy and that they were the first to enforce it, pointed to surges in illegal immigration and fraud, trotted out decades-old court cases and human trafficking laws, blamed Democrats and even cited the Bible. Here are their defenses, fact-checked. WHAT WAS SAID “We have to get the Democrats to go ahead and work with us. Because as a result of Democrat-supported loopholes in our federal laws, most illegal immigrant families and minors from Central America who arrive unlawfully at the border cannot be detained together or removed together, only released. These are crippling loopholes that cause family separation, which we don’t want.” — Mr. Trump, in remarks on Tuesday to the National Federation of Independent Business False. Mr. Trump is again wrongly claiming that Democrats are responsible for “loopholes” that necessitate breaking apart families at the border. The White House cites a 1997 court settlement and a 2008 law as these loopholes. Neither mandates detaining parents and separating children from their families. Under the court settlement, the government agreed to quickly release children under an established preference that ranks for custody. In 2016, an appeals court held that the government must do the same for children who arrive with families. The 2008 law, the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act, requires the government to transfer children from countries other than Mexico and Canada to the care and custody of the Department of Health and Human Services and then place them in formal removal proceedings. It does not apply to children who travel with family. Mr. Trump is also wrong that Central American families who enter the United States illegally cannot be removed together. Like individual adults, families with children can be placed under a process known as expedited removal — unless they seek asylum. Through expedited removal, immigration officials can quickly remove an unauthorized immigrant from the country without having to go through an immigration court. If the families do make a claim of credible fear and are denied, they are then placed into removal proceedings. As Mr. Trump said, his administration could release one or both parents with their children. But it has instead chosen to prosecute people who cross the border illegally under a new “zero tolerance” policy, leading to the separation of children from their parents. WHAT WAS SAID “We now have thousands of judges — border judges — thousands and thousands. And, by the way, when we release the people, they never come back to the judge anyway.” — Mr. Trump This is exaggerated. Mr. Trump rejected a proposal from Senator Ted Cruz, Republican of Texas, to end family separation by hiring more immigration judges by suggesting that doing so would be useless. There are about 350 immigration judges in the United States, according to the Justice Department, not “thousands” of “border judges.” (There are just 1,300 sitting federal judges in all.) Mr. Trump is also wrong that immigrants “never” appear for a hearing before an immigration court. Around 20 to 40 percent of immigrants have failed to show up at a hearing over the past five years, data from the Justice Department shows. WHAT WAS SAID “The Obama administration, the Bush administration all separated families at the — They absolutely did.” — The secretary of homeland security, Kirstjen Nielsen, in a news conference on Monday This is misleading. While previous administrations did break up families, it was rare, according to former officials and immigration experts. The Trump administration, by contrast, has knowingly enacted the practice that some officials have characterized as a deterrence against illegal entry. In 2005, President George W. Bush introduced Operation Streamline, which, like the Trump administration’s zero-tolerance policy, referred for prosecution immigrants illegally crossing the border. Unlike the Trump administration, the Bush administration made an exception for parents with children. A spokeswoman for the Department of Homeland Security could not provide data on how many children were separated from their parents in previous administrations. Jeh Johnson, Ms. Nielsen’s predecessor under President Barack Obama, said in a recent interview with NPR that it was possible that families were separated, “but not as a matter of policy or practice.” “I can’t say that it never happened,” Mr. Johnson said. “There may have been some exigent situation, some emergency. There may have been some doubt about whether the adult accompanying the child was in fact the parent of the child.” Cecilia Muñoz, Mr. Obama’s top domestic policy adviser, told The New York Times that the Obama administration had decided against separating children from their parents because “the morality of it was clear — that’s not who we are.” A 2016 report from the American Immigration Council details the stories of children detained with one parent, but separated from the other. One woman was detained with her children and separated from her nephew, who was transferred to the care of a foster family. But neither the Bush nor Obama administration had a policy that had the effect of widespread family separation, said Sarah Pierce of the Migration Policy Institute. “Nothing like what the Trump administration is doing has occurred before,” she said. WHAT WAS SAID “In the last five months, we have a 314 percent increase in adults and children arriving at the border, fraudulently claiming to be a family unit.” — Ms. Nielsen This requires context. As The Times has previously reported, Ms. Nielsen’s statistical claim is correct, according to figures released from the Department of Homeland Security. But it is not evidence of rampant fraud. There were 46 cases of fraudulent family claims in the 2017 fiscal year. In just the first five months of the 2018 fiscal year, there were 191 cases. That is a 315 percent increase, but the comparison is not year to year. And those instances make up less than 1 percent of the families apprehended at the border. WHAT WAS SAID “D.H.S. is not separating families legitimately seeking asylum at ports of entry.” — Ms. Nielsen “If they enter the country at a port of entry and there are many of those along the border, they are not violating the law. The mother or father in that circumstance would not be prosecuted and the families are staying together. They’re — presumably, they are claiming an asylum and that’s — they would not be prosecuted and not be separated.” — Attorney General Jeff Sessions, in an interview on Monday with Fox News This requires context. The American Civil Liberties Union has filed a lawsuit on behalf of a Congolese woman who says her daughter was taken from her when she applied for asylum at a port of entry. As The Times and others have reported, asylum seekers are also being turned away when they do present themselves at ports of entry. Even when immigrants improperly cross the border, they can still legally seek asylum. But the administration’s zero-tolerance policy subjects all who cross the border illegally, including asylum seekers, to prosecution. |
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
(Post 2618882)
I use facts to debate a point.
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
(Post 2618882)
You just posted youtube videos of left wing talking heads.
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AA announced they are doing the same on this situation as UAL.
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Originally Posted by BMEP100
(Post 2618823)
I have to remember sometimes what Oscar really stands for and that most of what he says about his social justice agenda is just blather designed to bring attention and praise from the Progressives to himself. He's not purposely trying to antagonize our government leaders and half the country's population.
However, if one of those little brown kids slips through the Munoz moralist phalanx and wants to ride on my flight, I promise to give her/him a safe comfortable flight in conditions that far exceed the hell their irresponsible parents put them through to get here. Question for Leftists to settle this debate: Would you travel to a foreign country knowing you would be separated from your children? A. Absolutely not! B. I'm a hypocrite. |
C. I'm actually a heartless far right-wing SOB who can't imagine the desperation and horrible choices some other people in third world countries face.
P.S. I hope you don't pretend to be a Christian. |
Originally Posted by Monkeyfly
(Post 2618961)
Exactly.
Question for Leftists to settle this debate: Would you travel to a foreign country knowing you would be separated from your children? A. Absolutely not! B. I'm a hypocrite. |
Originally Posted by velosnow
(Post 2618905)
Ahem...
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-caller/ Notes: The Daily Caller is an American news and opinion website based in Washington, D.C.. It was founded by Tucker Carlson, a libertarian conservative political pundit, and Neil Patel, former adviser to former Vice President Dick Cheney. The Daily Caller produces sensational headlines and has a right wing bias in reporting and has made false claims according to Snopes and Politifact. (7/19/2016) Updated (4/21/2017) Aside from that, a quick check on the credited photographer from Getty shows no such images by that name. I call BS. |
Originally Posted by Flytolive
(Post 2618966)
C. I'm actually a heartless far right-wing SOB who can't imagine the desperation and horrible choices some other people in third world countries face.
Originally Posted by Floyd
(Post 2618969)
You're equating this to "travel"?
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