United Airlines September Job Fair
05-04-2019, 12:40 PM
#801
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: B756 FO
Posts: 1,288
Originally Posted by Learflyer
Listen. Didn’t always used to be this way. They may be upgrading at the FTC, but in my humble opinion, a strong fundamental foundation of experience at a regional level or decent 135 for at least a few years AS CAPT should be the measurement of “the best candidates EVAH!” Vs someone hired at delta or ual because they were the chapter president at their local Women in Aviation or through extreme nepotism ( google the article about the Delta captain mom and her TWO very young daughters who fly with her at Delta.
Jus sayin’.
Jus sayin’.
I don’t fully disagree with your feelings about the importance of PIC time. But we should all have a few current or former co-workers that occupy the left seat that are weak pilots. PIC time is great and all, but it does not necessarily mean he/she is going to be a better all around pilot than those pilots without 121 PIC time.
05-04-2019, 12:40 PM
#802
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,030
Originally Posted by sweptback
What do you mean backfire someday?
It's happened in the past and is happening now. People upgrade every day at the FTC without prior 121 PIC time. Captains you've flown with had their first upgrade at United.
I would argue that this round of hiring has given United some of the most qualified candidates EVER. How many regional LCAs or Captains has United hired with 10+ years 121 experience?
Anybody hired as a regional FO either has some serious connections, or has worked their tail off to get other leadership qualities to make up for the lack of PIC time on their resume. We are not at the point yet in the cycle where we're exclusively hiring 2000 hour pilots.
It's happened in the past and is happening now. People upgrade every day at the FTC without prior 121 PIC time. Captains you've flown with had their first upgrade at United.
I would argue that this round of hiring has given United some of the most qualified candidates EVER. How many regional LCAs or Captains has United hired with 10+ years 121 experience?
Anybody hired as a regional FO either has some serious connections, or has worked their tail off to get other leadership qualities to make up for the lack of PIC time on their resume. We are not at the point yet in the cycle where we're exclusively hiring 2000 hour pilots.
I know plenty of pilots (guys and girls) hired at Ual and Dal who were line FOs and nothing more, no committees, connections or any extracurricular activities. They were just diligent in their job search and seem to have the personality that fits the culture.
05-04-2019, 06:28 PM
#803
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,159
Originally Posted by Learflyer
I agree. PIC used to be an important thing. To be a PIC (or first time in the left seat for that matter) at a mainline carrier for the first time in one’s career and missing all of those thousands of hours in an ATR at a regional gaining experience is something that’s going to backfire someday.
1. It upsets the normal progression of upgrade and promotion in the profession at large. No need to poach co-pilots when plenty of experienced Captains available who paid their dues. Not unlike an attorney making partner, or a patrolman making sergeant.
2. Without having an opportunity to learn as a new Captain or Aircraft Commander it short-changes the pilot and his/her crew experience. It short circuits the learning process.
3. It provides a level of professionalism, a degree of credibility and a depth and breadth of knowledge that cannot be simulated.
4. The regional that hired the pilot as a co-pilot would likely want a return on their investment. Makes quite logical sense to upgrade at your regional if given the opportunity and give your employer a return on their investment. loyalty rewarded works both ways.
05-04-2019, 06:34 PM
#804
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,159
Originally Posted by SUX4U
Lear,
I don’t fully disagree with your feelings about the importance of PIC time. But we should all have a few current or former co-workers that occupy the left seat that are weak pilots. PIC time is great and all, but it does not necessarily mean he/she is going to be a better all around pilot than those pilots without 121 PIC time.
I don’t fully disagree with your feelings about the importance of PIC time. But we should all have a few current or former co-workers that occupy the left seat that are weak pilots. PIC time is great and all, but it does not necessarily mean he/she is going to be a better all around pilot than those pilots without 121 PIC time.
05-04-2019, 06:48 PM
#805
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 153
Originally Posted by DaMnad
Since u cant think of any perhaps that disqualifies you. What about lec/Mec chairperson, lots of good experience dealing with pilot issues and management in one of those positions?
United hires a range of experience and qualifications, something everyone here has had to deal with!
United hires a range of experience and qualifications, something everyone here has had to deal with!
05-04-2019, 06:49 PM
#806
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 153
Originally Posted by baseball
if someone upgraded to Captain at a 121 airline then that gets my attention. Why? That person had to pass a Captain ride and have an FAA ride. That process in and of itself weeds out allot of weak pilots. PIC time is two things: making decisions and airmanship. Leadership is built into the making decisions part of the equation. The best predictor of future performance is past performance. if a pilot upgraded to Captain, and has a good record in that role, than the best predictor of future performance in that role is already documented and a known quantity. fewer variables equates to less risk. It's a win-win for the applicant, the prospective airline and the profession at large. No brainer really.
05-04-2019, 06:49 PM
#807
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: B777 CA
Posts: 149
Originally Posted by sweptback
For the purposes of United, that is proprietary and they keep that stuff pretty secret.
But in general, if upgrading is not an option, look into being a sim instructor, pilot recruiting, ALPA rep/committee, safety work, management jobs, etc. Anything you can do to show career growth will help you. Even then, understand that as a FO you're at a disadvantage compared to a 121 Captain, LCA, military aircraft commander or instructor/evaluator.
But in general, if upgrading is not an option, look into being a sim instructor, pilot recruiting, ALPA rep/committee, safety work, management jobs, etc. Anything you can do to show career growth will help you. Even then, understand that as a FO you're at a disadvantage compared to a 121 Captain, LCA, military aircraft commander or instructor/evaluator.
No more side saddle as an engineer, so this is awesome. Everyone flies and everyone moves up the ladder.
No need to "show career growth" unless that growth equates to upgrading. That's the kind of career growth pilots care about. Now, HR golf shirt and khaki slacks type people may have a different opinion.....
There in lies the rub within the rub.
No need to keep that stuff "pretty secret" if we're all above board and all.
can't hire the best of the best when we are playing games..... Can't really hide behind "it's pretty secret." I don't think it's proprietary to lead the industry world wide in hiring females and minorities and slip in a few well connected peeps and family members. We should just be open and honest about what's going on that way it's at least semi-believable.
Nothing proprietary about hiring good pilots with a clean record and ample time in the left seat making decisions and taking care of their crew and their passengers.
proprietary is Col Sanders secret recipe. I get it, if that gets out everyone can have finger licking good chicken and KFC would be out of business.
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