LCC failing?

Reply Subscribe

Page 6 of 6

« First

Thread Tools

Search this Thread

10-27-2018, 07:09 PM

#51

Aquaticus

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jul 2014

Posts: 783

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Brody

Well as long as the the archaic bankruptcy laws remain unchanged United can waller in and out of court in the near future just like it always has. United can beat it's chest all day long but it when it comes right down to it, it is an institution more so than business. Too big to fail maybe but an institution none the less.

Our cash flow isn't exactly comforting. We keep rebuying outstanding shares but I dont see a real value to an increased share price. We aren't getting bought, we aren't merging, and the music will eventually slow/stop. I think our new managers are trying to make a name for themselves at the expense of our ability to survive in a downturn. Kirby might bring the share price above 100 but sell the kitchen sink to make it happen.

10-28-2018, 06:54 AM

#52

rightside02

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Nov 2008

Position: Airbus 320 Right Seat

Posts: 1,440

I agree. The share buy back programs airlines do dont make sense to me . Yes I see who they please but man seems like a waste of capitol

10-28-2018, 07:32 AM

#53

flightmedic01

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jul 2011

Position: Reclining

Posts: 840

RyanAir CEO is predicting Wizz Air, WOW, and possibly Norwegian Air won’t make it through the winter. Overcapacity, high fuel prices, high costs and low fares are a recipe for failure.

10-28-2018, 08:10 AM

#54

Flytolive

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Nov 2010

Posts: 1,785

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Brody

Well as long as the the archaic bankruptcy laws remain unchanged United can waller in and out of court in the near future just like it always has.

"Always has"? As in once in 92 years in the wake of the dot com bust and 9/11? Me thinks you dislike United.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquaticus

Our cash flow isn't exactly comforting. I think our new managers are trying to make a name for themselves at the expense of our ability to survive in a downturn. Kirby might bring the share price above 100 but sell the kitchen sink to make it happen.

Revenue up 11%, PRASM up 6%, fuel up 42%, $5B in cash, debt/pension obligation equal with DAL and half of AAL, margins up and capital expenditures flat. By any measure United is being run better for the long term than any time in the last 25 years.

10-28-2018, 11:26 AM

#55

webecheck

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Dec 2007

Posts: 662

Quote:

Originally Posted by rightside02

I agree. The share buy back programs airlines do dont make sense to me . Yes I see who they please but man seems like a waste of capitol

If you hold the shares in company treasury and then resell to raise capital when needed, at higher share prices, then it does make sense. I don't keep up on the share price and buybacks much, but if the company loaded shares in 2015/16 at prices in the 30s, then it looks great now with an $85 share price.

11-05-2018, 05:30 PM

#56

Andy

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Mar 2006

Position: guppy CA

Posts: 5,160

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy

Norwegian is in deep trouble along with WOW Air because year round TATL (trans Atlantic) LCC models don't work. This has been proved time and again since Freddie Laker first tried it and I'm always amazed that no one's learned their lesson on this matter.

WoW died first.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...43zul9aBptD1eA

Word is that Icelandair, also in financial trouble, bought WoW for ~$18 million.

11-05-2018, 07:39 PM

#57

STXDrew

Line Holder

Thread Starter

Joined APC: Sep 2015

Posts: 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy

WoW died first.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...43zul9aBptD1eA

Word is that Icelandair, also in financial trouble, bought WoW for ~$18 million.

Wonderful news! I read that Iceland bought WOW just to kill the brand/business. Hope someone does the same for Norwegian.

Last edited by STXDrew; 11-05-2018 at 08:11 PM.

11-05-2018, 07:57 PM

#58

galaxy flyer

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: May 2010

Position: Baja Vermont

Posts: 5,177

I don’t think the TWA pilots who got stapled and furloughed thought much of the merger!

Airlines combine lots of financial and operational leverage and, hence, very susceptible to economic downturns. Well capitalized ones can struggle through, the others, not so much. The US ULCCs are vulnerable in a down economy if only because their customers are vulnerable. The Big 6, not so much, but we’ll need a real downturn to find out who can swim. It’s been awhile.

GF

11-06-2018, 08:21 AM

#59

robthree

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Oct 2006

Position: 777, sofa

Posts: 1,183

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excargodog

Uh....
Pan American World Airways
Braniff
TransWorldAirlines
Northwest Airlines

Hate to break this to you, but airlines go out of business all the time, and into bankruptcy even more often.

"https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_airlines_of_the_United_States"

"https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airline_bankruptcies_in_the_United_States"

It was a compound sentence, but I didn't think it wasn't that hard to understand the point.

11-07-2018, 07:18 AM

#60

Smokey23

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Oct 2010

Posts: 666

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winston

We’re talking airline flying books and no one brought up Captain Gann’s masterpiece? For shame...

https://www.amazon.com/Fate-Hunter-E.../dp/0671636030

I often tell my non-pilot friends/family that if you want to get a real appreciation for the essence of my job, just read the first chapter of that book. Most of it is timeless.