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Old 11-16-2018, 05:29 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Itsajob View Post
They call that creating a hostile workplace and it can result in time off without pay. I know that we have a right to free speech, but when we accept employment at a company, it comes with conditions. The folks in HR wouldn’t look at calling someone a scab any different than using a racial or sexist slur. It usually never gets that far, but if it does you could pay a price. There was a captain who got very vocal and confrontational with another pilot (not a scab) for not wearing an ALPA pin. He was turned into HR and told that wearing the pin was optional, to keep his opinion to himself, and that he was getting a couple weeks off without pay to come up with a way to control his anger. If the scab only goes as far as the CP or standards you’ll only get a phone call. If they buck it up to HR, you could be looking at time off, or worse. Not saying that I like it, but that is how it will go down if you deny a scab just because they’re a scab and they press the issue. Its no different in the eyes of HR to deny someone the jumpseat because they’re a scab than it would be to deny them for the color of their skin, sexual orientation, gender,..... It’s 2018 and the hyper sensitive PC crowd is in charge at the top.
Perhaps this used to be the case pre merger at CAL, but I can assure you that no such HR punitive action will be taken if you deny a scab. Actually, calling them a scab is completely within our right. What you can’t do is call them a POS scab, or a forking scab. That crosses the HR line. These exact issues have been pressed to test post merger, and no harm came to the pilot. It’s a new culture now, scabs ain’t in charge any more in flight ops, and denying them a Jumpseat will have ZERO repercussion.
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Old 11-17-2018, 10:42 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Guppydriver95 View Post
Perhaps this used to be the case pre merger at CAL, but I can assure you that no such HR punitive action will be taken if you deny a scab. Actually, calling them a scab is completely within our right. What you can’t do is call them a POS scab, or a forking scab. That crosses the HR line. These exact issues have been pressed to test post merger, and no harm came to the pilot. It’s a new culture now, scabs ain’t in charge any more in flight ops, and denying them a Jumpseat will have ZERO repercussion.
Agreed.

Originally Posted by Itsajob View Post
They call that creating a hostile workplace and it can result in time off without pay. I know that we have a right to free speech, but when we accept employment at a company, it comes with conditions. The folks in HR wouldn’t look at calling someone a scab any different than using a racial or sexist slur. It usually never gets that far, but if it does you could pay a price. There was a captain who got very vocal and confrontational with another pilot (not a scab) for not wearing an ALPA pin. He was turned into HR and told that wearing the pin was optional, to keep his opinion to himself, and that he was getting a couple weeks off without pay to come up with a way to control his anger. If the scab only goes as far as the CP or standards you’ll only get a phone call. If they buck it up to HR, you could be looking at time off, or worse. Not saying that I like it, but that is how it will go down if you deny a scab just because they’re a scab and they press the issue. Its no different in the eyes of HR to deny someone the jumpseat because they’re a scab than it would be to deny them for the color of their skin, sexual orientation, gender,..... It’s 2018 and the hyper sensitive PC crowd is in charge at the top.
I can also assure you that since the case went to the US supreme court, I can call a scab a scab with impunity. If HR has a problem with it, then I get a big lump sum or my retirement back!

I can't get nasty with it, or harass, just simply use the term as a descriptor. That should suffice. Say it with a smile and like you mean it!
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Old 11-17-2018, 12:04 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Dave Fitzgerald View Post
Agreed.



I can also assure you that since the case went to the US supreme court, I can call a scab a scab with impunity. If HR has a problem with it, then I get a big lump sum or my retirement back!

I can't get nasty with it, or harass, just simply use the term as a descriptor. That should suffice. Say it with a smile and like you mean it!
Telling someone that the jumpseat isn’t available without reason is one thing, but if you call them a scab or tell them that you don’t give scabs a ride is another. I doubt the CP or pro standards would do much, but HR doesn’t look though a union pilot lense. Being super polite and telling a pilot that you don’t want a scab in your jumpseat could be viewed the same as telling someone that you don’t allow people of color or of alternative lifestyles in your jumpseat. You do have a right to free speech, but that doesn’t mean that you don’t pay a price for exercising it. There are conditions to our employment. We can’t badmouth the company on social media and we can’t run around expressing racial or sexist views no matter how polite and grammatically correct our statement is. Calling someone a scab and treating them differently could be seen as discrimination. If you’re in a position to grant or deny the jumpseat you’re most likely senior to me, so have at it.

Also, the captain that I mentioned before that got time off went beyond simply questioning the lack of a pin. He really showed his lack of maturity and almost got physically confrontational. A grown man willing to get physical over a disagreement is hard to explain. According to the F/O who turned him in he was told by HR and then reinforced by the chief pilot that wearing the pin is optional and that he was to keep quiet and not even point it out since that alone would be viewed as harassment by HR. This was post merger and the CP was a LUAL captain.
I’m not defending crossing the line, but only commenting on how the PC culture in HR would see things.
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Old 11-17-2018, 12:26 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Itsajob View Post
Telling someone that the jumpseat isn’t available without reason is one thing, but if you call them a scab or tell them that you don’t give scabs a ride is another. I doubt the CP or pro standards would do much, but HR doesn’t look though a union pilot lense. Being super polite and telling a pilot that you don’t want a scab in your jumpseat could be viewed the same as telling someone that you don’t allow people of color or of alternative lifestyles in your jumpseat. You do have a right to free speech, but that doesn’t mean that you don’t pay a price for exercising it. There are conditions to our employment.
FWIW, there is a pre-merger letter from the company to UAL ALPA referencing the Supreme Court case and re-affirming the ability to use the word scab in the UAL workplace. I'll see if I can find my copy.

Considering that the pre-merger UAL contract, including all precedents, survived the merger it must still be in effect absent revised guidance.

The key issues:
1) The word can only use used in reference to a person that crossed the picket line as the word scab itself has a defined meaning (i.e. the scab really has to be a scab.) If a person that crossed a picket line simply does not like the word "scab" that's too bad in the eyes of the U.S. Supreme Court.

2) It cannot be used with an adjective (i.e. you can't call anybody a "****** scab", for example.). The adjective is what crosses the line, as it does for most other instances.
All that said, from a practical standpoint a Captain that denies the JS to anybody for any reason simply has to say the word, "no," and nothing else.

It is simple, straightforward, and not open to interpretation. In specific reference to a scab, he/she is not required to receive, nor deserves, any further explanation anyway.
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Old 11-17-2018, 05:14 PM
  #25  
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Simply telling someone that you like a different flavor of ice cream is considered hate speech these days. I’d say that the smart money is to just say that the seat is unavailable without giving a reason.
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Old 11-17-2018, 08:08 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Itsajob View Post
I’d say that the smart money is to just say that the seat is unavailable without giving a reason.
Can't disagree with this.
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Old 11-19-2018, 07:21 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Hilltopper89 View Post
I support you but not sure this is true. Iv’e never flown with a CA who has or would deny a scab the seat. I usually ask their opinion on the matter and not one has said they would. I just flew with a guy wearing the battlestar and asked him. He said he’d let the guy jump but wouldn’t speak with him.
yea right, this is all made up.
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Old 11-19-2018, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Botched View Post
yea right, this is all made up.
I never said it was made up. I said I’ve never seen it.
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Old 11-23-2018, 09:40 AM
  #29  
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[QUOTE=Itsajob;2710053]Telling someone that the jumpseat isn’t available without reason is one thing, but if you call them a scab or tell them that you don’t give scabs a ride is another.

No, it isn’t. See above posts.

I doubt the CP or pro standards would do much, but HR doesn’t look though a union pilot lense.

Doesn’t make a whit what lens they use. As long as you don’t cross the lines mentioned previously, no harm will come to the pilot.

Being super polite and telling a pilot that you don’t want a scab in your jumpseat could be viewed the same as telling someone that you don’t allow people of color or of alternative lifestyles in your jumpseat.

This may be the most innacurate thing you’ve posted yet. Complete false equivalency, and a scab isn’t a federally protected class.


You do have a right to free speech, but that doesn’t mean that you don’t pay a price for exercising it. There are conditions to our employment. We can’t badmouth the company on social media and we can’t run around expressing racial or sexist views no matter how polite and grammatically correct our statement is. Calling someone a scab and treating them differently could be seen as discrimination.

Wrong again. Doesn’t matter how many times you say it, it’s wrong every time.

If you’re in a position to grant or deny the jumpseat you’re most likely senior to me, so have at it.

Also, the captain that I mentioned before that got time off went beyond simply questioning the lack of a pin. He really showed his lack of maturity and almost got physically confrontational. A grown man willing to get physical over a disagreement is hard to explain.

If what you claim is true, it’s the physical nature of the incident, or perceived threat of a physical altercation that drew the company’s ire, NOT the scab portion.


According to the F/O who turned him in he was told by HR and then reinforced by the chief pilot that wearing the pin is optional and that he was to keep quiet and not even point it out since that alone would be viewed as harassment by HR.

This is cute. We have numb nuts worried about the hat, but our unity pin is somehow off limits to being questioned. That’s the culture that we need to continue to leave in the rear view mirror.


This was post merger and the CP was a LUAL captain.
I’m not defending crossing the line, but only commenting on how the PC culture in HR would see things
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Old 11-23-2018, 06:29 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by 757Driver View Post
Did it between EWR & BOS with an infamous CAL scab not too long ago. Had flown with the D-Bag years back and he tried to pretend like he didn't recognize me. He asked for the Jumpseat, told him it was unavailable. He asked why and I simply told him it was unavailable. No call from anyone later and by his reaction, I could tell that it wasn't his first rodeo on being tossed.

Biggest A-Hole I ever had the displeasure to fly with. Beware the Karma.
Let me guess....Mr double scab!
I’ve also had the ‘pleasure” of flying with.
Good for you! I hope I get the same chance!
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