Extension for Add Pay on Domestic Trip
 

Having a discussion with a crew willing to extend for a domestic one leg flight. I never extended for a domestic flight, because I thought there were always issues for anyone trying to do so domestically. One person chimed in that domestic can't get add pay for extensions, but 5-f-1-h doesn't say anything that it's only international ops that get add pay. I could have swore we had previous threads on avoiding extensions for domestic ops as well, since you never get paid for them. Besides saying never extend, any input?

Only applies if duty period consists of a single leg so difficult to do domestically unless you are coming in from a RAP

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5-F-1-h-(1) For unaugmented Duty Periods, this Section 5-F-1-h shall apply only if there
is a single flight in the Duty Period (for purposes of this Section 5-F-1-h, a deadhead
deviation shall not be considered to be a flight).

I deal with this issue all the time on the FAR 117 PDR loop, if there is more than one flight (DH counts as flight) in the FDP then you will not get the add pay.

DG

Make it easy, JUST SAY NO.

Saying no is like ringing a bell. Every time you do someone gets their wings.( think new pilots)

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't think pay should factor in. Either you're able to extend mentally and physically, or you're not.

Also not a fan of the just say no people. Our job is to move people, and if you're saying no because you don't feel fit, then I'm 100% with you. If you're saying no for ANY other reason (I've heard them all), and not even giving consideration to the thought that you might be able to safely complete the flight in full contractual compliance, then you are wrong.

If you can look that passenger in the eye who's going to miss their father's funeral, or whatever else, and say anything other than "I couldn't get you there because I don't feel it was safe and prudent" then you're part of the problem.

/rant

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/Rant

Lots of folks worked very hard to rationalize duty times compared to the old rules. In the good (bad) old days UAL had better contractual duty limits compared to the old FARs. Today, the UPA matches 117.

Simply ALWAYS saying yes is essentially the elimination of those improved FARs, making the whole point of the improvements, well, pointless. The extension is supposed to be the exception, not the expectation.

If the airline does not have enough pilots to fly the schedule that's a management problem, not a pilot problem.

Agreed. I in no way advocate for "always" anything. In fact, I've had to call in fatigued on a day where we didn't even need to extend. I just think that we should judge it, professionally, in a case by case basis based on how we're feeling.

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If troops are getting shot at or a base is being overrun then I extend. Otherwise, not a chance. How can you possibly determine how alert you will be in several hours, when thunderstorms roll in, the weather goes to mins, the plane in front of you declares an IFE and closes the runway, etc...? Isn't Safety pretty high up on our priorities (ALPA, United, etc...)?

And what if you're going somewhere where your doomsday scenarios have virtually no chance of happening? I'm not a fan of extending but some of you guys stretch yourselves pretty thin...