Rehashing an old topic: the 45 minute report.
02-06-2019, 09:11 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 777
Posts: 2,158
Just today, copilot was ahead of me in the terminal. He was going straight to the plane, without talking to me about the flight plan. Headed over water to DEN from HNL. The weather was planed for snow. Minimum fuel to alternate, no room at all for any type of delay.
He said it's fine, so we talked a bit after I said we are supposed to flight plan together. I said I didn't believe the forecast, temp dew point was too close. So we added fuel. Then I said I'll call the dispatcher, he said you don't need to just do it on the ipad. Well.....the dispatcher really hadn't reviewed the flight plan either, and I need to educate him a bit.
Good thing we added fuel. Got to DEN with 1000 RVR freezing fog and snow. It was difficult to see enough to not taxi past the gate.
So, as Mako said, take your time. Don't go till you are ready. Review the papers. There is no physical way you can be ready and read all the maintenance history, notams, wx, and flight plan unless everything goes perfectly. And you still may have to call the dispatcher.
Bottom line is don't work when not on duty. Don't be giving the company a freebie. They will take everything you are willing to give them for free and turn around and hang you with it later. 45 minutes is not enough if you do the thorough job you are supposed to be doing--every leg, and have any margin left for a hiccup.
The company knows all this, yet they still want the reduced report times. This tells me they aren't really serious about an on time departure.
He said it's fine, so we talked a bit after I said we are supposed to flight plan together. I said I didn't believe the forecast, temp dew point was too close. So we added fuel. Then I said I'll call the dispatcher, he said you don't need to just do it on the ipad. Well.....the dispatcher really hadn't reviewed the flight plan either, and I need to educate him a bit.
Good thing we added fuel. Got to DEN with 1000 RVR freezing fog and snow. It was difficult to see enough to not taxi past the gate.
So, as Mako said, take your time. Don't go till you are ready. Review the papers. There is no physical way you can be ready and read all the maintenance history, notams, wx, and flight plan unless everything goes perfectly. And you still may have to call the dispatcher.
Bottom line is don't work when not on duty. Don't be giving the company a freebie. They will take everything you are willing to give them for free and turn around and hang you with it later. 45 minutes is not enough if you do the thorough job you are supposed to be doing--every leg, and have any margin left for a hiccup.
The company knows all this, yet they still want the reduced report times. This tells me they aren't really serious about an on time departure.
02-06-2019, 09:22 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 705
Originally Posted by guppie
the 1 for 2 duty rig? That's good to have, don't get me wrong, but show me a trip where that pays off.
02-06-2019, 10:44 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Posts: 488
Originally Posted by Dave Fitzgerald
Just today, copilot was ahead of me in the terminal. He was going straight to the plane, without talking to me about the flight plan. Headed over water to DEN from HNL. The weather was planed for snow. Minimum fuel to alternate, no room at all for any type of delay.
He said it's fine, so we talked a bit after I said we are supposed to flight plan together. I said I didn't believe the forecast, temp dew point was too close. So we added fuel. Then I said I'll call the dispatcher, he said you don't need to just do it on the ipad. Well.....the dispatcher really hadn't reviewed the flight plan either, and I need to educate him a bit.
Good thing we added fuel. Got to DEN with 1000 RVR freezing fog and snow. It was difficult to see enough to not taxi past the gate.
So, as Mako said, take your time. Don't go till you are ready. Review the papers. There is no physical way you can be ready and read all the maintenance history, notams, wx, and flight plan unless everything goes perfectly. And you still may have to call the dispatcher.
Bottom line is don't work when not on duty. Don't be giving the company a freebie. They will take everything you are willing to give them for free and turn around and hang you with it later. 45 minutes is not enough if you do the thorough job you are supposed to be doing--every leg, and have any margin left for a hiccup.
The company knows all this, yet they still want the reduced report times. This tells me they aren't really serious about an on time departure.
He said it's fine, so we talked a bit after I said we are supposed to flight plan together. I said I didn't believe the forecast, temp dew point was too close. So we added fuel. Then I said I'll call the dispatcher, he said you don't need to just do it on the ipad. Well.....the dispatcher really hadn't reviewed the flight plan either, and I need to educate him a bit.
Good thing we added fuel. Got to DEN with 1000 RVR freezing fog and snow. It was difficult to see enough to not taxi past the gate.
So, as Mako said, take your time. Don't go till you are ready. Review the papers. There is no physical way you can be ready and read all the maintenance history, notams, wx, and flight plan unless everything goes perfectly. And you still may have to call the dispatcher.
Bottom line is don't work when not on duty. Don't be giving the company a freebie. They will take everything you are willing to give them for free and turn around and hang you with it later. 45 minutes is not enough if you do the thorough job you are supposed to be doing--every leg, and have any margin left for a hiccup.
The company knows all this, yet they still want the reduced report times. This tells me they aren't really serious about an on time departure.
So how did the extra fuel save the day here? Did you have enough to make it safely to the alternate or not?
02-06-2019, 11:09 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: 30 West
Posts: 149
Originally Posted by Sunvox
Based on a comment from the other forum I'm concerned not everyone here is on the same page as relates to safety so I thought I'd repost a reply I made over there . . .
Jerry,
I was talking about safety which is United's #1 of the CORE 4 and how the 45 minute rule might be actually working against safety, and maybe some of us need to slow down and prepare more fully during challenging operations whether at uncontrolled airports with high terrain or simply a busy day at a hub with a new hire that is feeling overwhelmed, but this IS America and I agree the late contract is worth discussing so if you want to talk about a late contract, no one is stopping you from starting a discussion.
Thanks for allowing me to clarify the issue.
Fraternally,
Joe
Jerry,
I was talking about safety which is United's #1 of the CORE 4 and how the 45 minute rule might be actually working against safety, and maybe some of us need to slow down and prepare more fully during challenging operations whether at uncontrolled airports with high terrain or simply a busy day at a hub with a new hire that is feeling overwhelmed, but this IS America and I agree the late contract is worth discussing so if you want to talk about a late contract, no one is stopping you from starting a discussion.
Thanks for allowing me to clarify the issue.
Fraternally,
Joe
02-07-2019, 02:16 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: Airbus 320 Right Seat
Posts: 1,440
I agree with many on this thread . I’m m a domestic guy who’s been on the bus for a while . So I can prep very easily . I always do the walk around . As very few captains offer . (No problem , like to stretch my legs anyways)
That being said I am guilty of missing things in the past . The 45 min is totally fine in my opinion until something goes wrong then it isn’t . Just yesterday , just prior to push we had a reroute , mx problem and ramp congestion not allowing us to push . So parking break didn’t get released till cleared to push . Ops at this out station asked 10 times what our delay code was . We were busy so we finally just ignored them . I would say almost ALL GUYS I fly with look at the flight plan prior to getting to the van .
I get the working for free argument , but I also see it as an additional way to slow things down prior to push.
Hour would be fine with me . Not always needed but better to have than be rushed.
That being said I am guilty of missing things in the past . The 45 min is totally fine in my opinion until something goes wrong then it isn’t . Just yesterday , just prior to push we had a reroute , mx problem and ramp congestion not allowing us to push . So parking break didn’t get released till cleared to push . Ops at this out station asked 10 times what our delay code was . We were busy so we finally just ignored them . I would say almost ALL GUYS I fly with look at the flight plan prior to getting to the van .
I get the working for free argument , but I also see it as an additional way to slow things down prior to push.
Hour would be fine with me . Not always needed but better to have than be rushed.
02-07-2019, 04:45 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 262
Originally Posted by oldmako
1. Show up on schedule, utilizing the company provided transportation.
2. Take the time you need to get things done in ops and at the gate.
3. Release the parking brake only when both of you are fully ready.
4. Those days that you don't meet departure time, take the phone call when/if it comes.
Safety (and your ticket) should not be based on some average number for each and every flight. Unfortunately, I've been around long enough to know that it often is. Sometimes, some of us are our own worst enemies.
2. Take the time you need to get things done in ops and at the gate.
3. Release the parking brake only when both of you are fully ready.
4. Those days that you don't meet departure time, take the phone call when/if it comes.
Safety (and your ticket) should not be based on some average number for each and every flight. Unfortunately, I've been around long enough to know that it often is. Sometimes, some of us are our own worst enemies.
Get there when you’re scheduled to duty in and take as much time as you need before releaseing that brake! It’s their problem not ours!
02-07-2019, 06:31 AM
#37
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Position: FO
Posts: 149
Ive been at united for 4 years..and the 45 min report time def is not enought time to prepare....why are we flight planning in our hotel rooms and reviewing FPs on the van ride?? Also, in SFO..I can't count how many times I have been asked to come down 10 early for pickup so we can get to the airport and not be rushed..
02-07-2019, 06:36 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,815
Originally Posted by PilotGR
Ive been at united for 4 years..and the 45 min report time def is not enought time to prepare....why are we flight planning in our hotel rooms and reviewing FPs on the van ride?? Also, in SFO..I can't count how many times I have been asked to come down 10 early for pickup so we can get to the airport and not be rushed..
Nope Cap I will see you at scheduled van time. Never rush and if it goes out late it goes out late. If that happens enough by enough crews the times will change.
02-07-2019, 06:44 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,188
Originally Posted by Dave Fitzgerald
Just today, copilot was ahead of me in the terminal. He was going straight to the plane, without talking to me about the flight plan. Headed over water to DEN from HNL. The weather was planed for snow. Minimum fuel to alternate, no room at all for any type of delay.
He said it's fine, so we talked a bit after I said we are supposed to flight plan together. I said I didn't believe the forecast, temp dew point was too close. So we added fuel. Then I said I'll call the dispatcher, he said you don't need to just do it on the ipad. Well.....the dispatcher really hadn't reviewed the flight plan either, and I need to educate him a bit.
Good thing we added fuel. Got to DEN with 1000 RVR freezing fog and snow. It was difficult to see enough to not taxi past the gate.
So, as Mako said, take your time. Don't go till you are ready. Review the papers. There is no physical way you can be ready and read all the maintenance history, notams, wx, and flight plan unless everything goes perfectly. And you still may have to call the dispatcher.
Bottom line is don't work when not on duty. Don't be giving the company a freebie. They will take everything you are willing to give them for free and turn around and hang you with it later. 45 minutes is not enough if you do the thorough job you are supposed to be doing--every leg, and have any margin left for a hiccup.
The company knows all this, yet they still want the reduced report times. This tells me they aren't really serious about an on time departure.
He said it's fine, so we talked a bit after I said we are supposed to flight plan together. I said I didn't believe the forecast, temp dew point was too close. So we added fuel. Then I said I'll call the dispatcher, he said you don't need to just do it on the ipad. Well.....the dispatcher really hadn't reviewed the flight plan either, and I need to educate him a bit.
Good thing we added fuel. Got to DEN with 1000 RVR freezing fog and snow. It was difficult to see enough to not taxi past the gate.
So, as Mako said, take your time. Don't go till you are ready. Review the papers. There is no physical way you can be ready and read all the maintenance history, notams, wx, and flight plan unless everything goes perfectly. And you still may have to call the dispatcher.
Bottom line is don't work when not on duty. Don't be giving the company a freebie. They will take everything you are willing to give them for free and turn around and hang you with it later. 45 minutes is not enough if you do the thorough job you are supposed to be doing--every leg, and have any margin left for a hiccup.
The company knows all this, yet they still want the reduced report times. This tells me they aren't really serious about an on time departure.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
