Barley

So because Boeing put a rudimentary and obsolete anti-stall system in a new plane that has next to no automation to begin with we’ve reached the tipping point of automation? The only reason MCAS exists is because Boeing was allowed to self-certify the 737 MAX. They were allowed to self-certify because they lobbied Congress years ago and we all know how that works. They used the cheapest solution they could come up with that has no fault indication, no fail-safes, and no redundancy. To top it off nobody even knew about it prior to Lion Air. This isn’t a story about the tipping point of automation. It’s about designing planes in a negligent way to save a buck.

Dave Fitzgerald

Agreed. And because they were late to the party. Airbus had them beat with the A320 NEO. Now they have the A321NEO and considering a longer stretch to truly replace the 757's while Boeing dithers with further configuration studies.

costalpilot

well thats a hellofa selling point. "It worrks just fine if you understand how to fly it."

I suppose the salesman would not want to point out that only a certain precentage of the worlds pilots would be trained sufficiently, and the rest,

well

do you feel lucky.

echoaviation

“American Airlines, which ordered 100 of the planes and has 24 in its fleet, bought both the angle of attack indicator and the disagree light, the company said.

Southwest Airlines, which ordered 280 of the planes and counts 36 in its fleet so far, had already purchased the disagree alert option, and it also installed an angle of attack indicator in a display mounted above the pilots’ heads. After the Lion Air crash, Southwest said it would modify its 737 Max fleet to place the angle of attack indicator on the pilots’ main computer screens.

United Airlines, which ordered 137 of the planes and has received 14, did not select the indicators or the disagree light. A United spokesman said the airline does not include the features because its pilots use other data to fly the plane.”

Curious from 737 pilots what this other data was/is to know your AOA sensors are not working correctly? Apparently the NGs have the disagree light but not the MAX at UA?

Full article
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/21/business/boeing-safety-features-charge.html

Zenofzin

I get the point of the MCAS system, but wouldn’t it make sense for it to require DUAL channel inputs and disable it in the event of a single channel failure or disagreement as so many other systems are?? Seems like that might have prevented both accidents from occurring.

APC225

Maybe United will announce they’ve changed their mind now.

blockplus

Must be referring to the pitch limit indicators and the flight path angle indicators

JoePatroni

If the AOA sensor caused the problem, why would they want them now?

pangolin

I think this is a media misunderstanding. My airplane has two AOA sensors that feed the ADCs. However we don’t have an AOA readout. It doesn’t mean United doesn’t have AOA sensors. They just elected not to have the AOA number in any display.

aiir

If I’m understanding this correctly, which I may not and that’s okay, I don’t mind being corrected. There are two angle of attack indicators in the 737 MAX, and the MCAS system is currently supplied data by only one of the AOA indicators. Therefore, if you have the disagree light on, it might alert the pilots of this failure and they can then perhaps connect the dots and quickly come to the conclusion that the MCAS system is being engaged as a result of the faulty AOA data input on perhaps the one faculty AOA indicator and thus act accordingly. It’s still a stretch and perhaps asking too much of a crew that wasn’t properly trained in this new system. Plus, why not have the MCAS get and compare the data from both AOA indicators and possibly have some safeguards when there are disagreements, instead of just a light or warning.