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Contract 202[?]
08-02-2019, 04:10 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,159
The bigger questions are:
1. ALPA has known they are far part on scope with management, so why has ALPA not given us a blastmail on this weekly?
2. ALPA knows our leverage periods to move the fulcrum so to speak and provide leverage is summer and holiday months. Why wait til the end of summer to inform us?
3. Is ALPA playing nice-nice with management or is it just my imagination?
4. Are the reps (the bosses we elected) disengaged, or are they simply trusting the Chairman and the NC to do too much? Do they not have the tools to do their jobs? Is their job of negotiating an industry leading contract, to include scope enhancements and better scope protections beyond their skill-set?
5. Is the ALPA machine, to include the "appropriate committees" staffed up and ramped up?
6. Is Kirby winning?
NOT, I repeat NOT bashing, just asking. I think the pilot group has been very patient.
1. ALPA has known they are far part on scope with management, so why has ALPA not given us a blastmail on this weekly?
2. ALPA knows our leverage periods to move the fulcrum so to speak and provide leverage is summer and holiday months. Why wait til the end of summer to inform us?
3. Is ALPA playing nice-nice with management or is it just my imagination?
4. Are the reps (the bosses we elected) disengaged, or are they simply trusting the Chairman and the NC to do too much? Do they not have the tools to do their jobs? Is their job of negotiating an industry leading contract, to include scope enhancements and better scope protections beyond their skill-set?
5. Is the ALPA machine, to include the "appropriate committees" staffed up and ramped up?
6. Is Kirby winning?
NOT, I repeat NOT bashing, just asking. I think the pilot group has been very patient.
08-02-2019, 10:31 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SFO Guppy CA
Posts: 1,112
Originally Posted by baseball
The bigger questions are:
1. ALPA has known they are far part on scope with management, so why has ALPA not given us a blastmail on this weekly?
2. ALPA knows our leverage periods to move the fulcrum so to speak and provide leverage is summer and holiday months. Why wait til the end of summer to inform us?
3. Is ALPA playing nice-nice with management or is it just my imagination?
4. Are the reps (the bosses we elected) disengaged, or are they simply trusting the Chairman and the NC to do too much? Do they not have the tools to do their jobs? Is their job of negotiating an industry leading contract, to include scope enhancements and better scope protections beyond their skill-set?
5. Is the ALPA machine, to include the "appropriate committees" staffed up and ramped up?
6. Is Kirby winning?
NOT, I repeat NOT bashing, just asking. I think the pilot group has been very patient.
1. ALPA has known they are far part on scope with management, so why has ALPA not given us a blastmail on this weekly?
2. ALPA knows our leverage periods to move the fulcrum so to speak and provide leverage is summer and holiday months. Why wait til the end of summer to inform us?
3. Is ALPA playing nice-nice with management or is it just my imagination?
4. Are the reps (the bosses we elected) disengaged, or are they simply trusting the Chairman and the NC to do too much? Do they not have the tools to do their jobs? Is their job of negotiating an industry leading contract, to include scope enhancements and better scope protections beyond their skill-set?
5. Is the ALPA machine, to include the "appropriate committees" staffed up and ramped up?
6. Is Kirby winning?
NOT, I repeat NOT bashing, just asking. I think the pilot group has been very patient.
2. I believe that our NC/MEC are trying to do the best that they can with what they are allowed to do while in a negotiation cycle. We shouldn't be in a hurry to amend our UPA unless it's a good deal.
3. While in negotiations you can't just demand things. Everything in our contract has a price, as does anything we are asking from management. It just depends on what you're willing to pay to get what you want. So I think again, our NC/MEC are doing what they can with the tools that are available to them. A strike or self help will most likely never be allowed to happen.
4. It's not beyond their skill set, but there is only so much that they can do under the RLA. Like I said before, they can't just demand things and neither can management. It's a two party negotiation. Demanding things, just puts up walls that are very difficult to break down.
5. Yes, I believe so. Including the SPSC.
6. No one has won anything yet. Kirby only wins if we the membership ratify a concessionary deal. I don't believe that will happen. We just need to fly good jets and do what we've been doing. Fly our contract!!!
08-03-2019, 05:24 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 705
Originally Posted by DashTrash
1. If ALPA used blast mail weekly on this topic, that could be considered negotiating in public. That is not a good thing, especially if we would have to go through mediation. Just because the Company does it, doesn't mean we can get away with it.
2. I believe that our NC/MEC are trying to do the best that they can with what they are allowed to do while in a negotiation cycle. We shouldn't be in a hurry to amend our UPA unless it's a good deal.
3. While in negotiations you can't just demand things. Everything in our contract has a price, as does anything we are asking from management. It just depends on what you're willing to pay to get what you want. So I think again, our NC/MEC are doing what they can with the tools that are available to them. A strike or self help will most likely never be allowed to happen.
4. It's not beyond their skill set, but there is only so much that they can do under the RLA. Like I said before, they can't just demand things and neither can management. It's a two party negotiation. Demanding things, just puts up walls that are very difficult to break down.
5. Yes, I believe so. Including the SPSC.
6. No one has won anything yet. Kirby only wins if we the membership ratify a concessionary deal. I don't believe that will happen. We just need to fly good jets and do what we've been doing. Fly our contract!!!
2. I believe that our NC/MEC are trying to do the best that they can with what they are allowed to do while in a negotiation cycle. We shouldn't be in a hurry to amend our UPA unless it's a good deal.
3. While in negotiations you can't just demand things. Everything in our contract has a price, as does anything we are asking from management. It just depends on what you're willing to pay to get what you want. So I think again, our NC/MEC are doing what they can with the tools that are available to them. A strike or self help will most likely never be allowed to happen.
4. It's not beyond their skill set, but there is only so much that they can do under the RLA. Like I said before, they can't just demand things and neither can management. It's a two party negotiation. Demanding things, just puts up walls that are very difficult to break down.
5. Yes, I believe so. Including the SPSC.
6. No one has won anything yet. Kirby only wins if we the membership ratify a concessionary deal. I don't believe that will happen. We just need to fly good jets and do what we've been doing. Fly our contract!!!
One added note. In remembrance of the company slinging pasta against a wall ten years ago, you might want to rethink your last sentence in a public or any forum.
08-03-2019, 03:54 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SFO Guppy CA
Posts: 1,112
Originally Posted by Floyd
Why would we be in a hurry to negotiate a substandard deal? This will not be a cost neutral contract. Therefore, we are not going to pay for what we get. Of course there are priorities and the cost of obtaining one benefit might be forgoing another.
One added note. In remembrance of the company slinging pasta against a wall ten years ago, you might want to rethink your last sentence in a public or any forum.
One added note. In remembrance of the company slinging pasta against a wall ten years ago, you might want to rethink your last sentence in a public or any forum.
08-05-2019, 12:25 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,160
Originally Posted by Dragon7
Gonna be a while.
While we all hoped for a new contract to be quickly negotiated, that didn't happen. Given that both pilots and management have a long list of items they want to change in a new contract, it's not surprising that this is taking some time.
Would I like a new contract? Yes.
Am I willing to accept a bad contract and/or scope relaxation? No.
I can wait.
08-05-2019, 01:49 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 491
Originally Posted by Andy
Just like all section 6 negotiations. If pilots want something quick, then they should take a contract extension. If they want full section 6 negotiations, expect it to take a couple of years.
While we all hoped for a new contract to be quickly negotiated, that didn't happen. Given that both pilots and management have a long list of items they want to change in a new contract, it's not surprising that this is taking some time.
Would I like a new contract? Yes.
Am I willing to accept a bad contract and/or scope relaxation? No.
I can wait.
While we all hoped for a new contract to be quickly negotiated, that didn't happen. Given that both pilots and management have a long list of items they want to change in a new contract, it's not surprising that this is taking some time.
Would I like a new contract? Yes.
Am I willing to accept a bad contract and/or scope relaxation? No.
I can wait.
08-05-2019, 02:00 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,160
Originally Posted by O2pilot
The company can wait as well. Right up to the next downturn. They have no reason to give us a contract now while they are trying to control costs. Management would rather throw away Billions in meaningless stock buy backs so that EPS numbers grow artificially, instead of spending one dollar in paying pilots more. Remember this next time you are asked to waive or take a broken airplane.
08-05-2019, 02:15 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SFO Guppy CA
Posts: 1,112
There is no motivation for either side really, to make a deal with the current situation. If we were willing to just roll over and cave on scope, we could probably have a TA within a week. I’m not willing to do that!!! We should not project fear into our fellow members either, because you’re worried about an economic downturn. We shouldn’t make a deal because of what might happen. We need to tap the brakes and be patient.
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