UPRT?
 

How did you like the training and did you think you gained anything useful from it?

I found it to provide some very good information, primarily about performance loss at altitude and being careful near max FMC alt. I do not think it provides very realistic scenario training for upset as it is completely impossible to simulate the startle of being flipped upside down.

I fly competition aerobatics on the side. If you haven’t been upside down lately I highly recommend it.

A little seat of the pants man-handling (trigger warning) a 737 is good for the soul. I enjoyed it. Got more out of it than I thought I would. Glad we did it. Was hard in the sim to go for that 1/2 G unloaded sweet spot but it was fun trying and cool to see the low speed awareness reaction. Got a ton of reps in which helped solidify the idea behind the call outs.

Agreed. It is good for all that you mentioned above.

I thought it was great. Hopefully if any of us were unaware of swept wing aerodynamics and handling characteristics this helped.

I thought it for a short time before leaving TK. There are plenty of misconceptions out there. My favorite was “you can’t stall an airplane when inverted!”. I heard that one twice from two separate people on separate days.

I would guess you can stall an airplane upside down in two ways:
Pushing too much (trying to keep the nose up upside down in level flight)
Pulling too much (might be hard, but as long as you load up enough starting at a low speed it should be possible I think).

Prefer my flying blue side up, let me know if I’m wrong.

Big Thumbs Up. I've got lots of experience recovering from unusual attitudes, but not in something so unwieldy. Much better prepared now.

Wish we spent more CQ time doing stuff like this vice my umpteenth V1 cut. Lots of possible EPs out there that I've only read about and never seen in any form at the TK (runaway trim anyone?).

Recent example: The SWA engine failure combined with a not so rapid decompression. In the initial confusion after the engine shelled, how easy would it have been not to notice the loss of pressure? I'd love to see that recreated at the TK as a demo.

Reminded me a lot of working on my private pilot. Departure stalls, accelerated stall, approach stalls. It was very hard on the sim. About what I expected of a transport category plane, but useful.

I am an outlier, I have both civil and military background. I had it the first day they were running it, so the instructor was a little lost, but we muddled through it.

Good training and we should have had it a decade ago.

Critical AOA reacts the same whether right side up or inverted. If you exceed it, you stall. So what you said above is correct, plus any other way you could stall upright. It’s the same for inverted flight.

Out of the realm of transport flying here, but your comment of pulling hard enough inverted to stall is 100% correct. I do it all the time when doing snap rolls on an inverted down line or at the top of a loop.
That is a positive snap roll from inverted. You can also push into a negative snap.

Found it to be really well done. Briefing was a bit long in tooth. Sim session was outstanding. Zero problem with drilling 4 callouts into line mongols like me going forward.

I found it useful, if a bit canned. The pneumonics of the way if is taught are likely necessary, but I found that distracting. Our first instincts are often wrong, particularly if a pilot has limited aerobatic training, so I understand the why behind it. Overall, the simulator is the limiting factor in the training, but I felt it was some of the best training I’ve had at United.

Once I had the G Gordon face palm down, I knew I was ready for the upset training.

Thanks
filler

I have to echo the comments by others in that it has been some of, if not the best training I’ve seen in my 21 years in the industry.

I agree, great training. If you want to expand on it and experience it first hand, you can go to APS in Mesa and experience it in an Extra. The instructors there are top notch and great at what they do. I have been twice and it still amazes me how they can hold an intelligent conversation 5-6 turns into a full on spin.

I thought it was great, and long overdue.

It is extremely similar to Air Force “unusual attitude recoveries,” except the Air Force allows blending of actions (say, going to idle while rolling upright when nose low and inverted), instead of in a methodical linear fashion.

I learned to fly at an FBO, and had some misconceptions about stalls and spins a few years later when I showed up at Air Force pilot training. The Air Force (correctly) dispelled the idea that airspeed causes a stall, and UPRT stays true to that dictum:

Airplanes stall when you ask for more “g” than current conditions allow. Solution?

Ask for less.

Great program, and highlights the dominance of inertia over aerodynamic damping of the empennage when in a post-stall gyration.

These days I'm happy with any training that doesn't involve ethics, bribery, harassment, or how to turn into Marvin Mainliner in ten steps or less.

Loved it, so far the best training I’ve had at United

You obviously havent experienced the LEAP class yet.

IP: “Demonstrate an unusual attitude and recovery.”

Student: “I want a BUFF....wait....no, I want a fighter.”

IP: “Very good.” :D

:p:p:
..............

Floyd I hope you got the gouge on the HR Bribery training blocks. :)

Fast forward baby...Clickity clickity click.

I found the training, for the most part, to be well done. However, as an Airbus driver, there are specifics to this fleet that could be emphasized (ie sidestick priority). My understanding of the Air France A330 crash was that one pilot was commanding full aft stick while the other pilot was attempting to recover by pushing forward on the stick and didn’t take priority. Not a factor in a Boeing since you can see what the other person is doing as far as control inputs. Just something to consider. A critique was submitted on my part.

I came to ask you guys another question but as far as UPRT scenarios, blame it on your partner next to you... that's how you got there. :D

Captain pulled 1 too many CBs and the FO had a startled approach to flying a perfectly good airplane.
https://youtu.be/nD4pmT3Urxk

And AF447 imagine being the Captain being called off break to find the mess he found in the cockpit. Again a airplane that had a indicator issue but was perfectly fine to fly... until you go full aft stick for a while.

It had a whole lot more wrong than "an indicator issue".

That is not to say the guy flying was an idiot, but they were getting contradictory information (and a cacophony of racket from *****ing Betty) from the onset of the pitot's icing over to the point of impact. There was a lot going on. It was dark and they were in pretty significant turb, having jammed their widebody into a radar shadow. Ronin picked a bad night to whip out his disgrace of the base super-stick skills.

It was good, but I wouldn't call it "the best training I've ever had" by any stretch. (Don't misunderstand me: I thought it was well done.)

Nothing new was presented, and at least one thing was dumbed-down a bit... though I do understand the logic behind it.

Additionally, the sim is quite limiting in what it can realistically simulate. I did a UPRT course in 2014 that was flown in a Saberliner. We flew it to some pretty extreme attitudes and I enjoyed that. Talking to pilots that hadn't done much of that kind of flying, they said doing it in the actual jet is very eye-opening and worthwhile.

It was good to fly the maneuvers: they should be practiced periodically.
And if pilots without "upside-down time" find it beneficial, UAL should continue to incorporate it into every sim session we do. The sim time is usually available on our 9-month refreshers.

It is now included in the CQ events. T or L, I can’t remember which.

Both, Airhoss......til we get everyone on property signed off.

Makes sense.

Hey Airhoss if you PM me then I can say I have a pm that establishes you as an awesome guy (which I already know, by the way).....😂

Moderators just pulling Airhoss’s chain in a friendly manner....pls don’t send me to the corner

There must be a “back story” here.:D