matl

Looking for advice, thoughts, perspectives to cover all basis...thanks in advance!

- QoL is priority
- hoping to limit time away from home with young kids/special needs (HAL 717 inter-island is appealing)
- 1st year HAL pay is NOT a concern (mil retirement, wife works)
- we have a home on Oahu and plan to move there for the next 5-8 years minimum
- we family on island but cannot say we could live anywhere forever
- we like the option of more domiciles, faster growth/movement (UAL), but why start off commuting to/from LAX-HNL?
-- how fast can you hold a 73 or 78 line from LAX with RONs at HNL?
-- I guess this is a commute now or later issue if we decide to move back to the mainland. Lol
- possible merger concerns? - I read the SWA/HAL thread
- not interested in SWA to have wide body option later
- any Pro/Cons for profit sharing, family/travel benefits?

cadetdrivr

HAL

These two considerations trump all the rest, IMHO. Commuting from Hawaii to the west coast is doable (there are guys that do it) but potentially a nightmare as a new hire. You are flying the worst trips but at least commuting with the lowest possible company seniority.

Even as you gain seniority and can get overnights at home, you are still commuting on both ends of the trip or work block.

If you priotitize QOL and live in Hawaii, go with HAL and don't look back.

Grumble

Yup. Totally agree. You won’t see a HNL holding line with any regularity for a long time, or a 787 line.

Zoomie

GUM base at UAL is also an option. When I was out there I knew numerous commuters to Hawaii. When I was out there, the Island hopper trip went pretty junior, but I've heard that has changed now. Most likely easy to hold FO in GUM within 6 months to a year, or in indoc if you get lucky. As a junior guy in GUM, you will probably fly the redeye turns, which aren't great, but they are super productive, like everything in GUM.

You'd have to ask around to find out how long to hold the island hopper. Also, in that base you can bid a "Compressed" schedule where all your trips are squeezed into one block, therefore only one commute per month, albeit you might be away from home for 2 weeks.

Overall, I think Hawaiian seems like an obvious choice, but if you want to move back to the mainland in 5-10 years, Hawaiian doesn't have that option at this point.

Maybe someone that's been based in GUM in the past 5 years can weigh in.

kingairfun

---QOL: 717 is basically an AM/PM shift (with longer days avail. with higher credit days) Crews are awesome and you'll fly with the same people a lot. Great comradery. 321NEO is primarily 2 day or 3 day trips. 1 leg out/1 leg back. Think of it as 12-14 legs a month. Similar with 330/787, except longer haul and more 3-4 day trips. Our duty days are basically 6hrs for West Coast to 11 hrs for Asia/East Coast.

---Home Time: Bid 717... as you get more senior you may be there for school drop off and pick-up. Or only miss out on lunch at home.

---1st year pay: It sucks.. and no indication it is changing soon.
---Basing: Want to live in Hawaii: HAL.....Mainland: Go with United
--- Future Commuting: As you get a few years of seniority at HAL, West Coast commuting is much easier (but still a 5 hour commute) Anywhere other than West Coast.... ouch ( except maybe those few Central US cities with direct Hawaii service)

---Merger concerns: Only people who think SWA/HA are merging are SWA pilots. Different planes, route structure etc.. Only thing that differentiates SWA from any other of the worlds airlines serving Hawaii is SWA does a few RT's interisland to connect their passengers and hedge against stranding their pax due to cancellations. They basically have some ramp space at the end of the airport in HNL. That was once reserved for turbo props.

---Profit sharing: HAL is probably less than UA. Family travel on HA is probably similar to the rest. We serve far fewer destinations so don't expect a seamless trip to Evansville Indiana... From Hawaii, I can get myself and 3 family members to say Flint, MI for a few hundred $$ depending on how much of the trip I do flying with Hawaiian and connect on a United or Delta.

Bottom line... Want to live in Hawaii go with Hawaiian, Want to live on the Mainland or only plan on being in Hawaii for a few years... go with United

matl

kingairfun - this is great info/advice. I also read a separate Hawaiian thread that you provided some great insight so thank you!

Yes, 717s is a no brainer if I want to be home every day but I do see some cons WRT pay/schedule for stringing days off...looking to get weekends back after 6months - 1year.

Yes, we plan to live on Oahu and not worried about 1st year pay. But just thinking ahead w/ 2nd, 3rd year pay, etc. upgrade time (between the 3 aircraft) etc. w/ the 787s coming in 2021 and the 2yr seat lock rule. Just seeing which is the best aircraft to ask for (understand until indoc nothing is guaranteed). We are open to 2-3 day trips so maybe 321 NEO, 717s, 330 in that order? Does the 330 consistently do 2-3 day trips or are they much longer?

So between the 321NEO and 330 which would be more conducive for QoL - good schedule and/or stringing days off? Can you expand a little on the 321 vs 330 schedule for new FOs?

kingairfun

Typically 717 movement on the FO side is pretty rapid...ie: weekends off fairly soon....With the seat lock being 2 years it appears that roughly more than half the 717FO list will be off seatlock soon, meaning you'd benefit from them moving on to 321/330 (very unlikely 787 will go as junior as 2-3yrs)

You'd be able to string days off once seniority is built.. Or bid reserve and you'd be able to build almost any type of schedule. Upgrade for 717 is probably between 2-3 years, and appears to be holding for now and probably will during the 787 addition.

Whether the 330 is avail. for new hires will probably depend on who does what IR to the 787.. 321 will definitely create the better schedule and QOL quicker.. For now it is almost exclusively 2/3 day trips.. We do currently have a couple 4/5 day LAS and SEA, but those are going senior. You can expect 2/3 day trips on the 321..


With the 330 leaving most of the West Coast, it now primarily does Asia,Aus., and NYC/BOS.. junior trips are usually 3 day Japans (HND,NRT,KIX, FUK and CTS: probably in that order)


Auckland, Brisbane, SYD are typically 3-5 day trips.. I'd say AKL is the most junior out of those.. SYD 3 day is the most senior..

We also do out and backs to Samoa and Tahiti... bit brutal on the body but provide high credit, more days off etc.. They go both junior and senior.

You'll be gone for longer periods on the 330, and be on reserve or have the LAS redeyes much more frequently than you may like.

Personally if you're interested in more home time (or less longer stretches away) and a bit of a pay bump.. I'd go with 321...

But even then the 330 does have a few trips that seem to fit your needs.. It's just a matter of seniority really, and with the 787 coming , it's any ones guess what the movement on the other fleets will be for the next 3 or 4 years.

matl

SOLID info -- thanks!!!

hummingbear

Over the past three years GUM has gone from over 100 crews to around 60. Some new hires have come in, but that’s by no means a guarantee of future availability. As a 5 year employee (around 60% in base presently) I can sometimes hold an island hopper (HNL layover), but they don’t often go much lower than that. That’s just a snapshot of the domicile today, and it could move in either direction at any time, but I wouldn’t put a lot of stake in GUM as a new hire option- especially if the hope is for a lot of HNL overnights. A good compressed schedule can yield up to 18 days off in a row, but at the lower end of the seniority spectrum, you’re more likely to see around 12. Personally, I’m an “avoid commuting at all costs” guy, but I won’t presume to opine on what is best for your situation. Hope the information helps.

matl

Thanks! GUM is farther from HNL than SFO/LAX so if UAL - I prefer taking my chances from the west coast to HNL. But the more research and threads I read - I'm not sure how long we can sustain a 10-12hr round-trip flight commute for every trip I take. Maybe 1-2 years....after that it seems like it would get pretty old.