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Old 03-30-2020, 07:32 PM   #1  
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Default Too many seats in the market

Whenever the airline industry finds itself in financial distress as it is today, airline management always cry out the words "too many seats in the market." It is nearly impossible to compete in a market in which your competition is some how subsidized by ways that other competitors are not privy to. The rules of international air commerce are always in a state of change, but you can be assured they are not going to be changed in favor of a U.S. publicly owned airline.

As pilots we all want to fly the biggest, highest paid, and glamorous jets. We want to go to the most exotic destinations and stay downtown in the hotels where the rich and famous stay in. And, we only want to do it 9 days a month.

Just like in 1941 the days of the big Battleships were coming to an end. It was the dawn of the Aircraft Carrier that carried a lot of small fighter airplanes. The Japanese (not the Germans) attack on Pearl Harbor made the Battleships obsolete. Today, this virus attack will make the big WB airplanes obsolete. If you have a market that has 500 passengers a day, rather than run 1 airplane you are better of running 2 smaller airplanes on that route. Our customers now have a choice of 2 departure times, and if one flight is cancelled you only ****ed off half as many passengers and only have to pay for half as many hotel rooms. Oh!, and the airline is going to need more pilots.

Over 25 years ago there was an airline management duo that came up with a "Go Forward Plan." Yes, they were the guys that ran the only legacy airline that didn't go BK after 911.

The Go Forward Plan had these four cornerstones.

) Make Reliability a Reality
) Fly to Win
) Fund the Future
) Treat each other with Dignity and Respect

It worked then and took an airline from worst to first. Would it work today? Maybe, but what we are doing now sure doesn't look good.

Now is the time to fund the future for the FNG's. Ditch the old, obsolete, unreliable WB fleet today. Pay the old Pilots enough cash today so that they leave UAL payroll. UAL and ALPA is killing this airline slowly "by death from a thousand cuts."

Fly Safe and do the right thing.
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Old 03-30-2020, 07:38 PM   #2  
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Cool story brah....
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Old 03-30-2020, 07:41 PM   #3  
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US Airlines ARE being subsidized right now.

No problem with it.
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Old 03-30-2020, 07:59 PM   #4  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pass it on View Post
Whenever the airline industry finds itself in financial distress as it is today, airline management always cry out the words "too many seats in the market." It is nearly impossible to compete in a market in which your competition is some how subsidized by ways that other competitors are not privy to. The rules of international air commerce are always in a state of change, but you can be assured they are not going to be changed in favor of a U.S. publicly owned airline.

As pilots we all want to fly the biggest, highest paid, and glamorous jets. We want to go to the most exotic destinations and stay downtown in the hotels where the rich and famous stay in. And, we only want to do it 9 days a month.

Just like in 1941 the days of the big Battleships were coming to an end. It was the dawn of the Aircraft Carrier that carried a lot of small fighter airplanes. The Japanese (not the Germans) attack on Pearl Harbor made the Battleships obsolete. Today, this virus attack will make the big WB airplanes obsolete. If you have a market that has 500 passengers a day, rather than run 1 airplane you are better of running 2 smaller airplanes on that route. Our customers now have a choice of 2 departure times, and if one flight is cancelled you only ****ed off half as many passengers and only have to pay for half as many hotel rooms. Oh!, and the airline is going to need more pilots.

Over 25 years ago there was an airline management duo that came up with a "Go Forward Plan." Yes, they were the guys that ran the only legacy airline that didn't go BK after 911.

The Go Forward Plan had these four cornerstones.

) Make Reliability a Reality
) Fly to Win
) Fund the Future
) Treat each other with Dignity and Respect

It worked then and took an airline from worst to first. Would it work today? Maybe, but what we are doing now sure doesn't look good.

Now is the time to fund the future for the FNG's. Ditch the old, obsolete, unreliable WB fleet today. Pay the old Pilots enough cash today so that they leave UAL payroll. UAL and ALPA is killing this airline slowly "by death from a thousand cuts."

Fly Safe and do the right thing.
Wow, that sounds great! Any chance we could get rid of domestic crew meals for a while and offer to DH across the ocean in coach “if 1st class is booked full” and heck, while we are at it, take a row in coach for crew rest for a couple of years “to help the company sell revenue up front”! No thanks. I did that once and won’t do so again. I hope your post was in jest. If not, go *widebody*

Last edited by UAL T38 Phlyer; 03-31-2020 at 11:31 AM. Reason: TOU
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Old 03-30-2020, 08:26 PM   #5  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pass it on View Post
Whenever the airline industry finds itself in financial distress as it is today, airline management always cry out the words "too many seats in the market." It is nearly impossible to compete in a market in which your competition is some how subsidized by ways that other competitors are not privy to. The rules of international air commerce are always in a state of change, but you can be assured they are not going to be changed in favor of a U.S. publicly owned airline.

As pilots we all want to fly the biggest, highest paid, and glamorous jets. We want to go to the most exotic destinations and stay downtown in the hotels where the rich and famous stay in. And, we only want to do it 9 days a month.

Just like in 1941 the days of the big Battleships were coming to an end. It was the dawn of the Aircraft Carrier that carried a lot of small fighter airplanes. The Japanese (not the Germans) attack on Pearl Harbor made the Battleships obsolete. Today, this virus attack will make the big WB airplanes obsolete. If you have a market that has 500 passengers a day, rather than run 1 airplane you are better of running 2 smaller airplanes on that route. Our customers now have a choice of 2 departure times, and if one flight is cancelled you only ****ed off half as many passengers and only have to pay for half as many hotel rooms. Oh!, and the airline is going to need more pilots.

Over 25 years ago there was an airline management duo that came up with a "Go Forward Plan." Yes, they were the guys that ran the only legacy airline that didn't go BK after 911.

The Go Forward Plan had these four cornerstones.

) Make Reliability a Reality
) Fly to Win
) Fund the Future
) Treat each other with Dignity and Respect

It worked then and took an airline from worst to first. Would it work today? Maybe, but what we are doing now sure doesn't look good.

Now is the time to fund the future for the FNG's. Ditch the old, obsolete, unreliable WB fleet today. Pay the old Pilots enough cash today so that they leave UAL payroll. UAL and ALPA is killing this airline slowly "by death from a thousand cuts."

Fly Safe and do the right thing.
If ALPA is so toxic and youíre so concerned about the new guys, may I recommend you donate all of your ALPA negotiated pay raises above 2005 levels back to the new guys. Iím sure theyíll take cash or checks.
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Old 03-30-2020, 08:40 PM   #6  
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I don't want to rain on your parade, but I think UAL has already made a lot of moves along the lines of what you are advocating. Remember the -400s? I have my doubts that we will ever see the -350s we have on order or the 777x. I'm pretty sure the 321-XLRs will be used primarily for TATL routes, replacing larger 757s and 767s and allowing us to serve new markets to boot. Meanwhile, we are still going to need WB aircraft for quite some time on exceptionally long or congested routes. Among U.S. carriers, we should naturally be flying the biggest average gauge aircraft because they allow us to serve the most customers possible within the infrastructure we have to work with.

I have to chuckle at your mention of the Go Forward Plan, not that it wasn't good but because it bears a passing resemblance to Core 4. Also, a long time ago I wrote a paper on Continental's turnaround and became familiar the Go Forward Plan. As I prepared to interview at merged UAL under previous leadership, I went on the corporate website to familiarize myself with the corporate culture at the time. There, I found almost verbatim the Go Forward Plan. A good plan is less important than good leadership. Our leadership right now is much improved. Hopefully I'll still think so in a few months.
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Old 03-31-2020, 01:01 AM   #7  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vernon Demerest View Post
Wow, that sounds great! Any chance we could get rid of domestic crew meals for a while and offer to DH across the ocean in coach “if 1st class is booked full” and heck, while we are at it, take a row in coach for crew rest for a couple of years “to help the company sell revenue up front”! No thanks. I did that once and won’t do so again. I hope your post was in jest. If not, go * yourself.
This. ^^^^^^^

Last edited by UAL T38 Phlyer; 03-31-2020 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 03-31-2020, 05:16 AM   #8  
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Sounds like fond memories of two bankruptcy filings in 7 years pre-9/11 followed by a negotiated bankruptcy style contract in 2003. Iím glad you enjoyed Gordonís book though. Did you have to buy it or was it dropped in your V-file?
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Old 03-31-2020, 05:42 AM   #9  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vernon Demerest View Post
Wow, that sounds great! Any chance we could get rid of domestic crew meals for a while and offer to DH across the ocean in coach “if 1st class is booked full” and heck, while we are at it, take a row in coach for crew rest for a couple of years “to help the company sell revenue up front”! No thanks. I did that once and won’t do so again. I hope your post was in jest. If not, go * yourself.
Thank you for your cogent and well thought out reply. It appears that GordoLove is alive and well. What a bag of miasma.

Last edited by UAL T38 Phlyer; 03-31-2020 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 03-31-2020, 07:45 AM   #10  
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Pass it on.........like herpes
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