AA CEO Calling Kirby Out
 

Glad to see someone calling him out.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2020/05/05/american-airlines-ceo-says-united-cannot-legally-shift-workers-from-fulltime-to-parttime-sources-say/#ddf34356efdfIn a labor-management telephone meeting Tuesday, American CEO Doug Parker said United is incorrect in saying that it can shift workers from full-time to part-time after accepting the grant. “Some airlines think it is OK to go and cut employees’ hours,” Parker said, according to notes and recollections from two people who listened to the meeting but asked not to be named. “One [airline] is cutting full-time from 40 hours to 30, a 25% cut in pay,” Parker said. “I was there when we were working on CARES and that wasn’t the intent or meaning of it.

“And that is not just for union employees – it is for non-union, too,” Parker said, according to the two people. “We disagree with [United’s] position, and if anyone asks, we will let them know we disagree with their position. “

United said Friday that it plans to shift about 13,800 workers, including fleet service workers and passenger service agents, from full-time to part-time on May 24. The workers are members of the International Association of Machinists, which represents 28,000 workers at United, making it the largest union at the carrier.

At American, IAM and the Transportation Workers Union jointly represent about 31,000 mechanics and fleet service workers. Under the CARES Act, United has accepted a direct grant of $3.5 billion to pay employees through Sept. 30. Labor unions including IAM were involved in drafting the language of the bill and guiding it through Congress.

As a condition of taking the direct grant federal funds, air carriers are prohibited from cutting airline workers’ pay and benefits and from laying off workers until September 30. In a May 1 letter, United Executive Vice President Greg Hart wrote that effective May 24, “in full compliance” with both its IAM contract and the CARES Act, all passenger service agents and fleet service workers “will be reduced to part-time status.”

“While our contract allows for a reduction of full-time employees all the way to 20 hours, we will commit to an equivalent number of 30-hour bid lines,” Hart wrote. He said employees can request layoffs, separation or retirement.

Parker and United President Scott Kirby, who will become CEO on May 20, were once close associates who together went from managing a small carrier to running the world’s biggest airline. They began working together at America West Airlines, where Parker was hired in 1995 and Kirby was hired in 1996. Together, they engineered a merger with US Airways in 2005 and a merger with American in 2013. But in 2016 Parker asked Kirby to leave American in the midst of executive suite intrigue regarding succession. Tension between the two men has continued.

Previously, IAM has said that both Delta and JetBlue also violated the CARES Act by forcing pay concessions from workers after taking grants.

“At Delta, thousands of workers are being forced to work fewer hours per week without pay,” said said IAM District 141 and 142 Presidents Mike Klemm and Dave Supplee in an April 23rd letter to the two airlines’ CEOs. “At JetBlue, workers have been forced to take 24 days of unpaid leave from now until September 30, 2020.”

“The grant money that you demanded and received was calculated using these workers’ compensation and is meant to maintain their salaries and benefits through this crisis,” Klemm and Supplee said.

Perhaps Parker doesn’t have the option with his tech ops and CS contracts.

Who knows?

While I feel for the UA folks that are going to be impacted by the company’s move, if it’s in their contract pre CARES Act, they need to look in the mirror and ask why.

Take our current displacement set up. It is in effect a flush bid with the exception of no secondary/tertiary displacements due to being a “reduction” mode displacement. For those that trigger into a new seat prior to 1Oct, their pay rate will go to that new rate. It’s in the contract. Sucks but is. However it isn’t a non contractual reduction in pay. That’s the difference.

Lee

He just doesn’t have this option in his labor agreements. American is hemorrhaging cash right now and they are trying to make us bleed cash as well. I’m surprised he hasn’t complained about our displacement bid and all the money its going to save the company.

Otherwise he wouldn’t care.

UAL “Hemorrhaged” $1.7B in Q1.

$1.7B is chump change compared to 18 years ago.

Surely Dougweiser cares about our employees. Why would he say such supportive things? Have we received all the CARES monies yet?

It all brings a tear to me eyes after the thrills of the ATSB days.

When we come out on the other side of this I hope Scooter returns the favor to Dougweiser.

Yes, but they are getting in under control and have a far lower burn rate than American. Especially now with all the gate agents going to part-time and the aggressive cutting of flights. Burning $25M per day less than American. Would hate to be over there right now.

Another American pilot coming to the UAL forum to degrade a former executive? Yawn.

I will admit that I am totally confused now!
I initially thought I'm pay protected as a 756 at blended rate until (IF) I go to Airbus school. Then the union put something out (I believe Sat) that made me think I'm screwed and go to Airbus 12yr FO rate as of 1 June.
Then tonight BQ (or one of the other guys) had a slide up and I could have sworn they said.. June OR whenever you start IOE.. which ever comes later.
But now you posted that ^

What happens to pay for -
Me?
A 787 FO bumping down to 73/guppy FO?
A 756 Capt bumping to Triple or 78 FO?
A 73/Guppy Capt bumping to 73/Guppy FO?

I hate to write this.. but we need to start seeing some 'examples'

Also.. I get bumped to Airbus FO. A 2yr 78 FO gets bumped to Airbus FO and the next person junior to me gets bumped to Airbus FO?
Who goes first? I was always under the impression that it went by seniority order unless the 2yr person already had a furlough notice. After tonight, not sure about that anymore.
If I go before the other 2.. I believe I'd still be pay protected on the 756 rate, correct?

CRAZY F'ing times~
Motch

PS) Thanks for what you're still doing for the pilot group!

“he can’t do that to our pledges!”
“Yeah, only we can do that to our pledges!”

I think the intent is to stick up for all of the UAL employees getting fleeced out of their bailout. Taxpayer dollars not going to where they were intended to.

I am sure pilots would be ****ed as well if your min guarantee was unilaterally cut 25% even though congress gave you funds to cover it all.

Congress did not give the funds to cover it all. The grant money that the airlines received covers about 75% of the payroll. The taxpayer dollars are going exactly where they were intended, there is simply not enough to cover 100%.

The MEC needs to put out a FAQ. They are doubtless getting hundreds of the very same questions in PDRs.

Yeah.....I’m sure Parker can’t sleep at night because he’s concerned about his competition’s workers being treated unfairly.

He’s crying foul because it might give UAL an advantage. Period.

AA's contract gives the company more than enough power to run a displacement every month, as they see fit. You guys are completely delusional if you believe otherwise.

Congress gave 75% of last years Q2 and Q3 employees salary under the conditions they maintain those positions.. It's not unreasonable for your employer to pay for 25% of your salary.

Doug is right and frankly the crooks in Chicago are dumb as usual. Just like the Dr. Dao incident, Willis tower brain trust will double down on the wrong move and have to walk it back or pay it back. Legislators and the public are taking notice, it's going to be a **** storm.

Triggered much? All I did was correct someone who said that Congress gave money to cover it all when that isn’t the case. I don’t understand what that has to do with the AA contract, or Dr. Dao, but whatever, rant away.

Parker is a hypocrite. Didn’t he just get 700+ pilots to agree to 50 hours of pay until they retire instead of paying them all min guarantee? He took the grant money as well. Pilots getting 20-30 hours less a month of pay that are making $285/hour is a LOT more or a pay cut than a gate agent who makes $25/hour losing 10 hours pay a week.

Not defending Parker nor do I care why he chimed in on the way UAL is handling these funds but man, what a stupid statement from you. Those retirees are being paid to retire! That’s zero commitment to the company for 50 hr/month, plus 401k contribution, plus medical, plus profit sharing (if we ever profit again), plus flight deck jumpseat privileges until they’re 65. And it’s completely voluntary. You think that’s some kind of a bad deal, or somehow comparable to rampers being forced into part time?

This has nothing to do with triggering United, it’s to stay in the government’s good graces to approve another merger, it’s what he always does.


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It's all about a level playing field. Nothing wrong with that but if UAL employees want to take one for the team out of affection for SK then by all means...

Sign me up!

I was actually beginning to be a little more hopeful for the industry future until yesterday’s townhall with this Network Planner named Ankit. Wow, what a bunch of hubris.He spent 4 minutes explaining why we’ve cut more than DL/AA, and how we will shrink to profitability. Dodged the question of how we will get bookings if we don’t offer any flight schedule, while our competitors do.

Please,SK offer me early out like AA.

You keep your pay until Jun 1 or completion of IOE. Whichever happens LATER.

The early retirements are voluntary. It’s the “V” in Voluntary Permanent Leave of Absence (VPLOA). Same as the reduction in hours via Short Term 1/3/6 month leaves (VSTLOA)- voluntary.

I’m guessing Douggie’s critique is that it would seem UA and JB are cutting hours without the “voluntary” part. Are the reductions already included in those employees contracts? Then Doug would certainly be outside of his lane, and wouldn’t be the first time.

Yes the reductions are already in their contract. Down to 20 hours I believe...

June 30 *NOT* June 1.........June 30th being the effective date of this displacement bid.

You and I must have been listening to different town halls. He did not dodge the question on bookings or the flight schedule. He said the planned schedule from earlier this year is still in the system and bookable for 330 days out. It's only as we get closer and have to make schedule/bidding determinations do they cancel on a rolling 30-day basis. Close-in bookings are what create a vacuum right now as trying to book anything after a reduced schedule load shows 2-3 connections to get places.

What torqued me was the "fluff" stuff at the beginning of the event. I fully appreciate, respect and recognize every pilot doing stuff in our communities right now during this pandemic. They deserve recognition, but I thought that could have been left to Bryan's flight operations update published on the iPad instead of taking valuable time away from pressing matters.

Motch


When does the Company trigger a pay reduction if bumped down?

Per UPA 8-F-7-b, pay goes down upon the LATEST of:

1. Activation, usually Operating Experience (OE).
2. The Displacement Bulletin Effective date (6/30/2020 in this case)
3. The date a pilot is no longer entitled to pay rate protection, in accordance with the provisions of UPA Section 8-F-5.

Lee

Thanks Lee...
Now I know I have the right answer.

Motch

Glad they backed off this ridiculous plan. It was wrong in every sense.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed...-file-lawsuit/

They are still planning on cutting M&A hours. 20 day forced vacation without pay. Otherwise known as a furlough?


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Bryan tried twice to ask a question of him that was posted numerous times in different poses; that is how can we sell tickets on flights that are not listed? Yes, the question was with respect to “close in “ bookings. He equivocated and if you paid attention Bryan kinda just gave up after the second time. It was a fair question that went basically unanswered, expect the implied ”we will shrink to profitability”. The other majors are kicking our butt on passenger revenues.

I do agree with you about the pander fluff. I nearly logged out. The fact that he did that, and then proceeded for several minutes to recount the history of what a great job his team did reducing the schedule cost him credibility, imo.

I liked the Dutchman from cargo Jan something. Straight shooter.

I agree with most of your post, but I’m unsure where you’re getting this data from?

He's doing exactly what he was trained to do in a corporate environment. Every time you talk to another group you talk about how your group is doing an excellent job, and how your team is special. Then, other groups form an opinion of the network group as being smart, in demand, and future leaders of the company.

The problem is, none of the pilots care. We are not on the corporate ladder. We're just here to do our jobs and go home. Corporate-speak is wasted on us, and we tend to react negatively to it.

It's a classic know your audience type of situation.

Would be pretty funny to see the text message Kirby sent Parker after Parker threw him under the bus.

"Do you miss me as much as the BOD does?"

If the company is "rambo-ing" it and not doing the CARES act correctly than the line pilots would have to force ALPA to file a grievance and/or a lawsuit. the union doesn't like to sue anyone. recall when ALPA didn't want to engage due to the federal laws on USSERA that were impacting ALPA members? There are laws that have tentacles into our contracts. The CARES act may be one of them.

ALPA may choose not to engage in any sort of law suits involving the C19 relief laws. I see some work groups are filing law suits already because their management's are interpreting the CARES act laws one way, and the rank and file are interpreting those laws another way. Don't be surprised if ALPA chooses not to engage. Your reps will likely have no input into that process.

”It’s not personal.....it’s strictly business....”

Thats about as far opposite as I was thinking as possible.