Displacement 20-08
06-05-2020, 08:23 AM
#101
The Beach
Joined APC: Apr 2020
Posts: 63
Originally Posted by globetruck
Why is everyone so upset? Kirby has rallied UAL’s stock price to outpace every other airline. He’s doing great things for the group of people that matter to him most - Wall Street.
Consumers can suck it and go fly another airline.
Employees need to realize that they’re just cost cells on one of his many spreadsheets.
Kirby is the new Smiskek. Shrink to profitability, downsize to cut costs, and never spook Wall Street by having excess capacity.
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Consumers can suck it and go fly another airline.
Employees need to realize that they’re just cost cells on one of his many spreadsheets.
Kirby is the new Smiskek. Shrink to profitability, downsize to cut costs, and never spook Wall Street by having excess capacity.
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It's called the Stock Buy Backs as recent as 2019......That same liquidity that SK wishes he had "yesterday" during this time.
06-05-2020, 08:37 AM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 698
Originally Posted by Fresh
DOW is up 900 today. We added 2.5 million jobs in May, ADDED. If this continues, Kirby will have to do a 180 from what is currently taking place and he better do it soon.
06-05-2020, 08:46 AM
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 189
Originally Posted by boeingdvr
The industry needs 2m people more to fly every day. Public is scared.. it will take some time.
06-05-2020, 09:39 AM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 767/757 CA
Posts: 2,609
Let’s be honest... the attitude of employees has never recovered from 9/11 and the last economic downturn... other than those hired post merger employees have been skeptical of management... and those shaking Pom poms during Oscars tenure have hopefully wised up now... employees are a line item on a balance sheet.
06-05-2020, 10:19 AM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2019
Posts: 300
I have nothing against Kirby. He is doing his job. It is just business. I’ve been a self admitted koolaid consumer for years as a PI, LCA etc. It certainly isn’t personal for me. I’m down around 30% already and will end up down much more when I completely lose my seat. Like many of you, I’ll live but consider the 60-70% cut from lineholder/LCA to first officer as my shared sacrifice. I promise to make the transition for any of you headed back to the 737 as fun/positive as possible (before they release me to my new seat-wherever that might be). We will get through this and come out the other side tougher and more unified as a pilot group. No matter your background, we have to have each other’s backs over the next two years.
Vern
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Vern
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06-05-2020, 02:34 PM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,160
We're taking a bigger furlough hit because we have the most international exposure of the big 3. And hands down the most Pacific exposure, especially China. I expect our flying to recover slower than any other US airline. That said, these displacements/training schedule look like the company has plans to cancel some displacements if loads recover better than their current forecast.
06-05-2020, 05:11 PM
#109
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2020
Posts: 66
Displacement 20-08
Originally Posted by Squallrider
What’s the current furlough estimate if there is one?
date of hire wise
date of hire wise
Unknown since they haven’t published their desired number of narrowbody FOs yet. If you assume (worst case) that they want an equal number of CA and FO on the narrowbody, it would be just under 3800 displaced and furloughed FOs.
However, there’s about 1000 people out on mil leave, personal leave, sick leave, long term disability, and other non-COVID related long term absences.
Does that mean that they company really only needs to furlough 2800? I honestly don’t know.
Will the company allow narrowbody FO overages? Probably but not sure how many. Maybe 500 or so?
Scott “Smisek” Kirby keeps saying that he wants to posture UAL to bounce back quickly and devour the competition. But unfortunately his actions have been opposite. He keeps closing bases, just closed a bunch of overseas FA bases, and just this week published the first of 2 “small clean up displacements.” This one was about 1600 cuts.
How many will Smisek furlough? 13000 if he could. He is hell bent on shrinking to profitability and outsourcing everything he can.
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Last edited by globetruck; 06-05-2020 at 05:29 PM.
06-05-2020, 05:28 PM
#110
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2020
Posts: 66
Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets
i think this is incorrect. Kirby has done a fantastic job of spooking wall street since the day he got here. He all but told them to pick sand on his growth plan.
i believe Kirby when he says he wants to come out the other side of this running and driving to be a powerhouse. I believe Kirby when he says he wants to grab market share and out grow the other three domestically. I believe Kirby when he says he wants to be the worlds go to airline.
heres the problem he wants pay cuts so he can go at the throats of our competitors. Just think what we could do if all our costs were 25-30% cheaper than everyone else....no one would be able to compete.
so he has made MASSIVE staffing changes because he can. He can fly 100% of his schedule for the next 6 months atleast. The cigs are sitting at home so who cares what they say they fly. Kirbys plans and desires can not sustain these massive displacements and Kirbys ego is to big to big to lose to Dougie and AA. The day hasn’t arrived yet where he has to **** or get off the pot with training and won’t for several months. So why not spread fear and anxiety to get concessions?
Kirbys own words should be enough for us to not trust these displacements. I do think his Hail Mary will be to cut 20-30%of the pilots on Oct first to show he’s “serious”. But if he does we will be smaller than all the other domestic carriers and will be drifting off into oblivion. How long will he allow that to happen? If we are not equal to or greater than The big three next summer in terms of flights and capacity he will have failed. And he hates failure.
i believe Kirby when he says he wants to come out the other side of this running and driving to be a powerhouse. I believe Kirby when he says he wants to grab market share and out grow the other three domestically. I believe Kirby when he says he wants to be the worlds go to airline.
heres the problem he wants pay cuts so he can go at the throats of our competitors. Just think what we could do if all our costs were 25-30% cheaper than everyone else....no one would be able to compete.
so he has made MASSIVE staffing changes because he can. He can fly 100% of his schedule for the next 6 months atleast. The cigs are sitting at home so who cares what they say they fly. Kirbys plans and desires can not sustain these massive displacements and Kirbys ego is to big to big to lose to Dougie and AA. The day hasn’t arrived yet where he has to **** or get off the pot with training and won’t for several months. So why not spread fear and anxiety to get concessions?
Kirbys own words should be enough for us to not trust these displacements. I do think his Hail Mary will be to cut 20-30%of the pilots on Oct first to show he’s “serious”. But if he does we will be smaller than all the other domestic carriers and will be drifting off into oblivion. How long will he allow that to happen? If we are not equal to or greater than The big three next summer in terms of flights and capacity he will have failed. And he hates failure.
Sorry but Smisek Jr’s actions have been crystal clear.
His WORDS:
- we are gonna bounce back and expand... pounce on the competition
- Aggressively lobbied for CARES act
- he’s always been vocal about scope and outsourcing
- “I have a secret” regarding desired manpower numbers... then negotiating in public saying that our unions could prevent all furloughs.
His actions:
- Before ink dried on CARES act, he was the first CEO to brag about how much smaller we will be and that we will shrink on 1 Oct. He used labor to get what he wanted from Congress and now he’s done with us.
- 5000 pilot displacement - twice that of any other airline.
- immediately violated CARES act by cutting people to part time and got called out by Congress
- opted to not take full CARES funds available
- said that labor costs must get slashed
- current 1600 “small” cleanup displacement with another one next month. ALPA stated that the company wanted to displace twice that number.
- 30% management cuts.
- closed FA bases.
- closed 756 and 777 bases all over the place.
- “30% cut” except for the 70% cut in DC... but hey, that’s just our nation’s capital and nobody wants to fly here.
- “no demand” for travel but keeps ticket prices astronomically high while Spirit and Frontier swoop in.
- RJs still flying everywhere.
So what am I missing here? Scott is doing EXACTLY what Smisek did when the going got tough. In my opinion, Scott has earned the name Smisek. Maybe you love the guy. I don’t know him and can only judge him by what he’s said and more importantly by what he’s done.
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