How the TA affects Vacation Pay
 

More information at:

https://unitedcontract.org/

https://i.imgur.com/c6VQaVW.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/KMtmPpS.jpg

This isn't new...it happens all the time. And what is the point of bringing up L-UAL vacation override from the distant past?

The only new thing they bring up is the moving MPG.

More stirring of the “fake news” pot, starting with the misleading headline. They are just trying to alarm you with old news, and they clearly can’t spell too well, either. The TA has zero EFFECT on the vacation you are due.

exactly... lots of fake narrative on these forums to get NO votes. Read the TA and Q&As, watch the videos, and make an educated decision on how this will impact your situation and other pilots on the block.

I predict the "moving MPG" will become permanent. It will be the new norm.

It's hard to put the genie back in the bottle.

Management has been wanting to treat the pilot group like migrant farm workers, only having to pay them during planting and harvesting since post WWII since the dawn of the jet age of aviation transport.

No way is this concept going to go away.

It all started with PBS. Once you get PBS, you lose the hard and fast reserve formula/manpower staffing compliment.

The only source of information seems to be coming from ALPA. is there an outside assessment?

How exactly will the “moving MPG” become permanent? Since the lowered MPG is only attached to a potential LOA with defined exit points, the only way for it to become permanent is if we vote it into the next contract. This agreement will be long gone by the time that we get back to contract negotiations. Management doesn’t want to carry excess workers through the slower periods, they want to get more done with less. It’s far more efficient to staff on the thin side and pay a few people extra to cover the peaks than it is to carry them all year long.

I bid 2 weeks off in February as I have done since before most of you got here and the MPG with add pay would have equaled 85:10. I usually bid around a 68-70 hour line and go and sail for a couple of weeks. This gets me close to vacation equaling five hours per day which is where it once was and where it should be. It also frees up flying for other pilots. This concessionary TA will cost me 15 hours of pay and I will actually end up flying more to make up the difference. Kirby is going to love this lower MPG; he won’t need as many pilots. Some of us have seen this game before several times and we know how it ends...

2:20
 

[QUOTE=Nucflash;3132983]More stirring of the “fake news” pot, starting with the misleading headline. They are just trying to alarm you with old news, and they clearly can’t spell too well, either. The TA has zero EFFECT on the vacation you are due.[/QUOTEYou are RIGHT!

And you are WRONG!

2:20.

Why did the vacation credit stay at 2:20? Does anyone know where the 2:20 came from? It's 70 hour MPG divided by 30 days in the month, = 2:20.



That's where the pilots are paying for this agreement, 2:20.



A 60 hour MPG should have a vacation credit of 2:00 not 2:20 and so on. Why did it stay at 2:20? So how does/can affect you and how does it affect me? Good Question! So I looked back at my last vacation month and here is what I found out. I a senior narrowbody F/O.





My August 2020:



No days of work, 8 days off, 22 days of vacation, Vac add pay = 71:30, MPG = 18:40, Total pay =90:10



70 MPG - ( 22 days X 2:20) = 18:40



Any potential month of 2021 with 60 hour MPG:



No days of work, 8 days off, 22 days of vacation, Vac add pay = 71:30, MPG = 8:40, Total pay = 80:10



60 MPG - (22 days X 2:20) = 8:40



Vacation paid the same but my pay went down by 10 hours. How can that be? Is it magic? No, it's a function of MPG. That's a 10 hour pay cut, not a work reduction. Plain and simple. I am still working the same number of days (zero) and I haven't gained any days off. Does this TA affect the vacation you are due? NO. Can this TA affect how vacation is paid out? YES. Will it affect everyone? No. Will it affect you? Do your due diligence and find out.



Now I sent an email to TI yesterday about this and I heard back pretty quickly from a high up on the SSC who said yes I am correct and that I am in the 10% who actually understands how this works. Well, why not explain this to the 90% then? Today I got another email from a 2nd person on the SSC so I guess my email really hit a nerve. This person said yes it will affect you, and it will affect more people if this TA is passed. I don't know if you are one of those (generally speaking) but it might be worth it to try this math yourself at your projected MPG.



I believe UALALPA has strong tradition of helping out pilots not only on the UAL list but other displaced ALPA pilots. I was one of them. As a 727 FE I sat behind a number of ex-Eastern types who were happy to get this chance at United late in life, even though they may never make captain. I believe this MEC in keeping that tradition had great intentions of helping potential furloughees. But implications of this TA are not fully understood and to call the MPG factor on vacation pay "fake news" just exposes ignorance. Do your due diligence THEN vote.

And yes, realize yes some of us are taking paycuts NOT just "work reductions".

Best wishes to us all!

Yep, just another February vacation, same same, everything’s normal, just like every year, business as usual, A-OK, nothing to see here, move along.....

The point here is that this TA reduces the value of vacation contrary to what the vote Yes at any price crowd is saying...but thanks for trying to save the company