HuggyU2

Not it all.
However it was irrelevant to the discussion, and came across as a sour-grapes personal attack. Like Scott or not, it was simply a cheap dig at him.

Rostov

I love it some idiot thinks that SK is not cut out to make decisions because they think he washed out of pilot training (which sounds like it isnt true). Lets see, dude climbs to the top of the corporate latter, successfully navigates the worst crisis in aviation history, and we come out looking to be in a better position than nearly all of our competitors and first to hire.

I think you need to spend some time in self reflection and realize that our pilots run the gambit of intelligence. From flat earther anti vax stupidity to some serious professional intellectuals. SK clearly is at the top of his game, I doubt the same is true for you.

tyler durden

Where did you read “SK is not cut out to make decisions”? Evidently in your rush to respond you missed the part where I said “No doubt an extremely intelligent and competent individual,”

Scott was well known at AA for his success in market/fleet sizing, among many other things and I agree he’s doing a good job navigating through the mire. Not sure if you just joined in, but this thread isn’t about Kirby’s general handling of United; it’s about him setting a trendy, feel-good but alarming hiring precedent. Try to keep up.

Given your apparent propensity for indiscriminately lashing out against fellow pilots (flat earth/anti vax?) while lobbing insults, perhaps it is you that should spend some time self reflecting.

Oletimer

Being honest. SK failed at American. Will that failure help him? Don't know.

Is SK an operations guy? No. He's not a pilot. There is much that is out of his wheel house. Gordon Bethune was an operations guy. He "got it." SK. He will need access to good people who are both operations people and who are willing to be frank. That frankness will require SK to be open minded. Further, it will require good people willing to take a risk and communicate honestly.

As in this issue......That sort of "honest and frank dialog" has not occurred. Otherwise he has people who are yes men and women and not willing to tell the Emperor he is naked.

This issue, like other endeavors of a similar nature will and should fail. It will fail for the right reasons. It is what it is.

tyler durden

Scott’s Air Force experience is absolutely relevant to the discussion. He did not come out of the fast food, or carpet industry like some of his industry predecessors that could have been forgiven for their lack of awareness of what this profession entails. By his own admission, Scott spent his whole life wanting to be a pilot. He graduated from The Air Force Academy which, regardless of why he didn’t become a pilot, he certainly knows what it takes to become one. Was not meant as a personal attack, just that someone with his background should know better.

I neither like nor dislike Scott Kirby. Being a pilot is not for everyone and it is certainly no badge of honor either. It’s just a job and many people way smarter than me I’ve washed out of flight training in one regard or another. It’s not a slam on his character or ability, his talents clearly lie at a much higher level. I admire and respect what he has done at United and AA.

Oletimer

That's true. And, also not a personal attack in any way.

Not many people go to the zoo not wanting to be a pilot. The AF academy is the only place you can go and get two things: A regular commission, and a guaranteed pilot slot if you want it.

Flying airplanes isn't for everyone.

I am sure that SK didn't go to the zoo for four years to get a ground pounder AFSC. A 6F0X1 AFSC (finance) as in CBPO/Base pay, budget analyst is not something someone does by choice. That's a black hole for officers that usually couldn't "Hack it" in other places. In AF Officer terms: Your first choice is pilot training. After that it's intelligence or weather. After that it's communications or logistics. After that: well...maintenance officer. After that: services and Finance. That is unless you are something else: Doctor, Nurse, Attorney (jag), minister/pastor/chaplain. Finance is a place no one wants to be.

biggun

I think we all know SK is not an operations guy. On the flip side, he may or may not have what it takes. I like his finance/budget background.

One thing I was marginally confident about with respect to Larry Kellner at CAL was he was a numbers guy. But, he was more than that. He was a bean counter that someone convinced him to grow the network by alliances and not by organic growth. Will SK grow via organic growth or rely on code share partners? Those are questions that need an answer. The over reliance on the 737 troubles me. That's an operational issue/question. International growth is where the revenue is. The PRASM's say this! the history of the business convinces me of this.

Now......regarding pilot training. SK is NOT an operations guy. So, his opinion on the direction of operations, or specifically "flight operations" is not relevant. The operations people need to grow a set and speak up and tell him he's nuts. Not a dig or personal attack. He's just wrong headed on this and he's too stupid to know better. HR is a subordinate organization in operations driven companies. They aren't superior, and they are not a co-equal branch of governance. HR does not tell operations what to do. That's just the brutal truth. It's one reason that USAF/USN flying units are required to have a rated (pilot) officer as their leader. Only a rated officer (pilot) can set and manage these types of big picture priorities. If this were a military organization, he might make it as high as vice wing commander. That's it. He lacks the requisite experience to relate to operational issues.

I like the fact that he knows he is an under-dog. He knows what he knows, but he doesn't know what he doesn't know. That's the problem. He likely isn't honest enough with himself to seek out what he doesn't know, or find the right people to speak the truth.

dawgdriver

Is this you SK? You mad brah?

dawgdriver

[QUOTE=NotoriousHIV;3223368]Flew with a guy that was in SK's class at the Zoo that thought he'd washed out of IFT (flight screening)

biggun

[QUOTE=dawgdriver;3223442]I have heard the same thing from some other ring knockers. His wikapedia page says he "trained as a USAF pilot." Take from that what you will. For it to be on there does say "something." It says.......he tried.

One article says........"Kirby’s involvement with airplanes began back in Texas when, as a pre-teenager, he read a book about World War II.

“I was fascinated by the stories about airplanes used in the war,” he said. “I became a World War II history buff. I also dreamed of one day becoming a pilot.”

After joining the U.S. Air Force and attending the Air Force Academy, Kirby learned to fly but, eventually, decided that he preferred solving problems on the ground using computers rather than zooming through the air.

“In the Air Force, we had to say a list of military expressions starting with, ‘Yes, sir!... No, sir!’” Kirby said. “My favorite was, ‘No excuses, sir!’”

The FIT story makes sense. No records of him completing USAF training. No operational assignment. NO UPT graduating class information.

https://www.eastvalleytribune.com/mo...7af52c452.html

FYI, The FAA airman records search does not show any pilot license for any Scott Kirby, or John Scott kirby born on August 13, 1967.

Not a dig, just the fax.

I am cool with him being an under-dog with an attitude. Non-rated people can make decisions and lead. Just they need to be careful about speaking with authority on issues they know nothing about. Real pilots, real operators know the issues, the challenges, and what it takes. Not HR and not a pretend or "almost" pilot.