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Old 04-17-2021, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by hummingbear View Post
Since this conversation keeps drifting to the idea of hiring minority pilots with reduced criteria, it bears repeating that the initiative in question is about finding minority candidates to include in the Aviate program that trains prospective candidates from zero to the career stage so that they arrive at that point equally qualified among their peers.

Hiring a woman with a wet ATP & poor flying skills over a dude w/ multiple engineering degrees & left seat heavy time has nothing to do with the Aviate diversity goal; but it is a much easier position to attack.
it worked for Meryl, Mary, and Shirley.
All were living breathing proof that you only need one pilot on the flight deck.
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Old 04-17-2021, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Huell View Post
it worked for Meryl, Mary, and Shirley.
All were living breathing proof that you only need one pilot on the flight deck.
Yeah..... Those three were perfect examples of why politics and optics have no place in the hiring department.
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Old 04-17-2021, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by John Carr View Post
Thats not relevant.

What IS relevant is wether or not the Dutchess is Sussex will be going into AVIATE?
Clearly she's qualified. Minority plus female. Sign her up.
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Old 04-17-2021, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by AAL763 View Post
Click Here for Video.
Most likely one of United’s newest hires. Haha
uh you didn’t ask hahahahahaha

she cracks me up I can’t stop laughing o m g

schools are now putting solos at the end of the curriculum...hopefully this isn’t true for her....wowzer
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Old 04-17-2021, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ThumbsUp View Post
Yes it is, but it’s like we’re living in different realities. If you stacked all of the candidates ordinally based on objective criteria, and then said we have 50 slots and anyone below this line is cut, you would not achieve a 50 percent minority acceptance goal historically. It’s only when performance is a secondary factor of the equation that you would achieve that.

Your argument seems to imply that accepting the best into Aviate is secondary to race and gender.
I think a lot of people are under this impression that you can objectively rank your candidates from 1 to 75,000 and just pick the top 10K. But we’re talking about admission to a flight school. Most applicants will have zero flight time or aviation experience, so what metrics are you going to use to make those rankings? Aptitude tests? (Can be helpful, but certainly not definitive.) In person interviews are far from objective. (How many excellent pilots have you known that interviewed here & didn’t get the job?) The Hogan? High school grades? (You’re gonna cut a guy who eats & breathes aviation because the other guy rocked it on his AP Chem test?)

How do you tell that #526 is 1 ranking better than #527, and so on? Show me a ranking system that does this & I’ll show you a consulting firm that walked away with $10M of our profit sharing by pulling the Hogan 2.0 entirely out of their backsides.

If you believe that it is, in fact possible to rank people that specifically, then I can totally follow your logic that a diversity initiative must necessarily involve compromising standards. I don’t personally believe that it is possible, which pretty well sums up the point where our realities diverge.

And understand, I’m not even arguing that implementing a diversity target is the right way to do things, just that as long as they are doing it in choosing from among well qualified candidates, it is a social, not a safety issue.
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Old 04-17-2021, 04:48 PM
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Their first criteria will likely be the Hogan.
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Old 04-17-2021, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Oletimer View Post
Air India has more female pilots I believe in case UAL HR is counting.
Yeah and this is what it looks like at 30W in a B777 when you're heading from FRA to ORD. No relief pilot and a 22 year old who doesn't have a third of the hours needed for a American ATP.
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Old 04-17-2021, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by YAKflyer View Post
Yeah and this is what it looks like at 30W in a B777 when you're heading from FRA to ORD. No relief pilot and a 22 year old who doesn't have a third of the hours needed for a American ATP.
Yea not the standard to be shooting for!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/t...ding-gear.html
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Old 04-17-2021, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by KSwift76 View Post
I appreciate your thoughtful post. Didn't see the other one you quoted. Typing on a phone so pardon the grammatical, spelling errors etc....

I understand your frustration. I hear you when you say you feel like you are being discriminated against. I just can't figure out how. You, (I assume you are a white male) are still getting 50% of the opportunity. Everyone else has to split 50% of the opportunity. These are not jobs until you pass the aviate interview. I imagine the off the street hiring will still be whatever it is now (I imagine 85% based on nothing more than my informal assumptions based on the people I see in the crew room, training center, and in the right seat). How is 50 % of the new thing, plus 85% 9f the old thing unfair to you.
The percentage is irrelevant. It is the fact that people are being hired and others are being excluded solely based on race. That is what this program does. Excluding minorities and women based solely on race was wrong and hiring the someone based solely on race is wrong too.
Are we going to make the NBA hire a certain percentage of white Or Asian guys and girls? Would that requirement and increased diversity make the league better? Maybe they should just continue to be able to hire the best basketball players? Maybe we should just hire the best pilots and leave race out of it. I have flown with awesome guys and girls of all races. Impeding the progress of someone who is white so that someone of color can take his place is racist.
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Old 04-17-2021, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sleeves View Post
T Maybe they should just continue to be able to hire the best basketball players? Maybe we should just hire the best pilots and leave race out of it. ....Impeding the progress of someone who is white so that someone of color can take his place is racist.
So a 5'7" white guy can't play basketball in the NBA? That's discrimination. We need 50% of the slots going to short white guys from now on. Same goes for the NFL.
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