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-   -   Aviate question. (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/136586-aviate-question.html)

PatriotFirst 02-06-2022 06:20 AM

Spot on.
They need to drop the vaccine requirement as well. There is enough "Science" now that proves the vaccine is a farce.

KirillTheThrill 02-06-2022 06:47 AM


Originally Posted by PatriotFirst (Post 3367080)
Spot on.
They need to drop the vaccine requirement as well. There is enough "Science" now that proves the vaccine is a farce.

Lol United’s not dropping the vaccine requirement after firing 300 employees.

worstpilotever 02-06-2022 07:46 AM


Originally Posted by PatriotFirst (Post 3367080)
Spot on.
They need to drop the vaccine requirement as well. There is enough "Science" now that proves the vaccine is a farce.

laura? Is that you? Or is it sherry?

fadec 02-06-2022 11:09 AM


Originally Posted by UASCOMPILOT (Post 3367024)
Well unless you a minority or a woman I wouldn't bother...just read the most racist flight opps update of my life. 80% are minority and women right now in training.

Maybe that's who is most qualified. Maybe United looked at all the apps and picked the top X number, and 80% just happened to be women and minorities. They can't just dig through the stack bypassing white males looking for women and minorities. That would be illegal. United wouldn't do that. When you eliminate all possibilities, what remains, no matter how improbable, must be true.

KirillTheThrill 02-06-2022 12:18 PM


Originally Posted by fadec (Post 3367251)
They can't just dig through the stack bypassing white males looking for women and minorities. That would be illegal.

They do that every single day at a college administration office near you. United management was very deliberate this program was created to target minorities, so why is anyone surprised by the shady numbers?

fadec 02-06-2022 02:06 PM


Originally Posted by KirillTheThrill (Post 3367280)
They do that every single day at a college administration office near you. United management was very deliberate this program was created to target minorities, so why is anyone surprised by the shady numbers?

There's a thing called sales puffery and it isn't required to be 100% honest. Saying you plan to preference based on race/gender for PR points isn't illegal. Actually discriminating against a protected class as you allege could get the company, and the employees involved, in a lot of trouble. I'm sure they didn't bypass any white males to arrive at an 80% woman/minority number. They simply picked the most qualified and that's what was there.

Airhoss 02-09-2022 03:45 AM


Originally Posted by fadec (Post 3367251)
Maybe that's who is most qualified. Maybe United looked at all the apps and picked the top X number, and 80% just happened to be women and minorities. They can't just dig through the stack bypassing white males looking for women and minorities. That would be illegal. United wouldn't do that. When you eliminate all possibilities, what remains, no matter how improbable, must be true.

And maybe the tooth fairy is going to bring you a unicorn for your birthday.

hummingbear 02-09-2022 04:32 AM

And once again, the fallacy of the “most qualified candidate” pops up among a bunch of white guys who are sure the system is rigged against them. Sure, if you could accurately rank 10,000 applicants from 1-10,000 you’d always do best to take however many you need straight off the top of the stack. That isn’t even remotely possible. The standard for ranking airline pilot aptitude to that degree of accuracy simply doesn’t exist.

The reality is there are usually a handful of standouts at the top, and an under-qualified group at the bottom. Once you give preference to the former & discard the latter, what you're left with is a big group in the middle that all look essentially equal on paper. To put it another way, there’s a big difference between #1 & #2,000. But no discernible difference between #2,000 & #7,000.

Essentially, any of us who had to make the final decisions on selection would have to rely on some arbitrary metrics to do so. I’m not saying UAL’s diversity initiative is perfect in its conception or application, but if you see intrinsic value to your company in a well diversified labor force, there’s no reason you shouldn’t build that into your metrics for sorting equally qualified candidates- as long as you’re not promoting discernibly under-qualified candidates. Anyone who feels that diverse demographics in hiring necessarily means that more qualified white males have been passed over should probably examine why they feel that way.

Hedley 02-09-2022 04:55 AM


Originally Posted by hummingbear (Post 3369351)
And once again, the fallacy of the “most qualified candidate” pops up among a bunch of white guys who are sure the system is rigged against them. Sure, if you could accurately rank 10,000 applicants from 1-10,000 you’d always do best to take however many you need straight off the top of the stack. That isn’t even remotely possible. The standard for ranking airline pilot aptitude to that degree of accuracy simply doesn’t exist.

The reality is there are usually a handful of standouts at the top, and an under-qualified group at the bottom. Once you give preference to the former & discard the latter, what you're left with is a big group in the middle that all look essentially equal on paper. To put it another way, there’s a big difference between #1 & #2,000. But no discernible difference between #2,000 & #7,000.

Essentially, any of us who had to make the final decisions on selection would have to rely on some arbitrary metrics to do so. I’m not saying UAL’s diversity initiative is perfect in its conception or application, but if you see intrinsic value to your company in a well diversified labor force, there’s no reason you shouldn’t build that into your metrics for sorting equally qualified candidates- as long as you’re not promoting discernibly under-qualified candidates. Anyone who feels that diverse demographics in hiring necessarily means that more qualified white males have been passed over should probably examine why they feel that way.

It shouldn’t be rigged for or against anyone. How one looks in the mirror has zero impact on how good of a pilot they are, and it should have zero impact on who we hire. This concept of using racism in the name of DEI to combat previous forms of racism must have MLK rolling in his grave. His dream that his children would not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character is still a dream, but using the color of their skin as a desirable feature for acceptance into something like Aviate is just as bad as using it as a disqualification. Here’s an idea….. why don’t we focus on what we all have in common and actually move on as a nation rather than continue this downward spiral by focusing on our differences?

dmeg13021 02-09-2022 05:28 AM

I can’t speak for Dr. King, but it certainly has James Earl Ray spinning in his grave.


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