Sunvox

From the latest update:

So the current offer is
Delta pay rates + retro assuming that is what is meant by "addressing the delay since our amendable date" (not to mention that the Tumi turd had retro already in it)
+ improvements in training, vacation, short call, reassignments and they expect even more improvements in Section 5 & 20 as well.

Some here and on the other forum are prepared for a long game that will take years in their mind. My question is what further gains do people see that are worth waiting 2 more years? And, as a corollary what past precedent or logic makes people think a government mediator would agree to any demand above what Delta has?

Also, lurkers here should know that after conversing with my reps via email it is clear we are asking for substantially more. My opinion is we will not get it, not now and certainly not if we end up in front of a government mediator in 2 years. If you agree with me that matching Delta pay and getting gains in the areas listed is sufficient, I urge you to voice your opinion to your reps.

LJ Driver

I don’t get your impatience. Progress appears to be being made. If the update stated “the company continues to be intransigent about our proposal and will not budge their position”, this would be a different conversation. I expect to see progress hopefully every week until it’s agreed that no more progress can be made, and either we have an AIP or we don’t. That timeline isn’t unlimited, it’s expiration is likely this spring/early summer.

Lumberg823

I disagree it would be 2 years. Perhaps if we ask for mediation but that won't be necessary. Every month we are substantially behind DL and soon AA, is a month the company will lose pilots either before they come to BI or soon thereafter. There are lots of stories of pilots leaving in the middle of BI to go to DL and even if they are exaggerated it's not hard to imagine that the numbers will soon be more than anecdotal. It would be highly foolish to pressure our side to settle with the company when time is not on their side now that DL has set the bar and their pilot group is about to enjoy their new CBA. I suspect AA will be soon and then the clock is ticking on UAL with the pressure building. Urging your reps to get a deal done is the last thing anyone should do, let them see it in the hiring numbers and pilots jumping ship and we will get a much better deal. My .02

WXS15

What constitutes a "gain" to you? Does accruing 61 hrs/yr vacation? 5:05 min pay? 12:15 long call?

I have no idea of the specifics, but I trust the NC to come back with a TA valuation that is industry leading with no concessions. Campaigning reps to rush things and accept what is being offered at this point only encourages the company to drag their heels and is why the union asked us not to negotiate publicly.

hummingbear

Union said the company is making movement in our direction & your response is that we should all contact our reps & encourage them to stop negotiating & sign whatever the company is offering today? No thank you.

Union also said the company seems to think “industry leading pay” and “industry leading contract” are synonymous. They are not. The union is willing to hold them accountable for their repeated and adamant promises of an industry leading contract, and I applaud them for it. No one is talking about 2 years at this point, but if we don’t get rid of the mentality that the sky is falling if we’re not voting on a TA in 2 weeks, we will get what we deserve & deserve what we get.

Your urgency is a great example of why closed door negotiations are the best format as being discussed on another thread. Of course the union is asking high & open to negotiating down. But as soon as some feel the ask is “too high”, they’re upset with the union for dragging the process out. But this is the process. It takes time.

Oh, and the lurkers should also understand that TUMI 1 was an example of expediency over quality. Everyone who wanted something now instead of something good voted accordingly. There weren’t many. In the aftermath, we took the time needed to reorganize our union. Some at the time cried that we’d never get our money back for time lost. They are almost certain to be proven wrong.

Why would we now cut the process short after taking such efforts to make sure the union is finally representing our interests? Progress is being made- let’s just calm down & let them do their jobs.

Race Bannon

So, a mere 1 month after DAL voted in their contract, some are calling for capitulation? Because it's enough even though we don't know what IT is? I guess if you are a senior short timer, that might be a reasonable perspective. For those closer to the new hire demographic, maybe a little more time to let our reps do their thing might be warranted?


Apologies, see you already got kick in the junk. So, yea, what ^^^^^^^^^^^^ said

Monkeyfly

Let’s not aim for a 50%+1 vote…again. I’m willing to wait for a contract that will get approved by a wide margin. Sunvox, you seem to be an emotional guy, don’t let Scott get to you, he is trying to evoke exactly the response you are giving.

Sunvox

Obviously I disagree. The MC and others have communicated that a "substantial gulf" remains. Based on the March 27th NC update I do not feel there should be a "gulf" of any kind, and THAT is the issue. It is clear the current MEC believes we should get more, much more. I disagree and am saying as much publicly.

I am at the end of my career and fully expect to retire in the next 2-3 years, and fortunately I married a wonderfully successful wife so I don't need this deal. I just feel expectations of our leadership have gone too far because of recent events, and furthermore I genuinely believe pursing those expectations could cost the pilot group quite dearly if these negotiations drag on into next year or beyond.

RatherBeVFR

ALPA asked us to not negotiate in public. We have been asked to wear our pieces of flair, go to meetings, and read all emails. This thread should die.

Snooter

I second the motion.