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-   -   Commuting for new hires (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/142505-commuting-new-hires.html)

dang 04-20-2023 03:42 PM

No schedule flexibility seems like a huge limitation to QOL. Are theses issues the biggest priorities with the new contract.

Ni hao 04-20-2023 03:44 PM

You simply need to understand one thing about United. You will not be able to drop anything here. I never worked for any LCC but I hear great things about QOL.

You will not have that here at United. Max hours min days off. Think very very carefully about if you want to work here.

Will this improve with a new contract who knows. We are working under rules put in place with the merger.



Originally Posted by dang (Post 3627046)
Got it. Does this change based on season/staffing? Or is it always difficult to drop trips?


Hedley 04-20-2023 04:09 PM


Originally Posted by Spartacusbob (Post 3627113)
Been here nearly a year. Have a line. Dropping is nearly impossible, haven’t successfully done it yet and been told it doesn’t work. RSV coverage is too high so no available pickers. I am routinely getting 88-89.5 hr lines. The QOL on RSV isn’t great because a day off isn’t always a day off-total bull**** btw. Can’t adjust your schedule to fly the hrs you want. This also screws your opportunity for premium pay because too many RSV’s. The company apparently gives no cares to the QOL issues affecting the fleet and its generating problems with upgrades, basing, etc. These are my personal experiences, yours may vary.

I won’t tell you to look at another airline but if I were you I’d think carefully about it.

Being a line holder in less than a year is impressive and shows how much movement we have right now, but I wouldn’t expect things to really improve until you have some seniority. This place is going to potentially be expanding as fast as staffing will allow and the junior pilots are going to be flying hard. Senior pilots can bid to fly less hours and better trips, but someone has to cover the flying, and stuff rolls downhill. When we eventually get our next contract I wouldn’t expect it to be the cherry picked best parts from other companies. It will have significant improvements, but I can’t imagine there ever being coverage to allow everyone to drop trips without coverage, bid lower time lines regardless of seniority, etc. Things will be better in the next contract for all, but there will always be a difference in QOL between being junior and senior.

Galaxy5 04-20-2023 04:10 PM


Originally Posted by Hedley (Post 3627099)
With seniority you can tell PBS to build lower time lines (varies every month), and many do. That is the reason that junior pilots have to fly high time lines and pick up the slack. On the 737 my average is about 75 hours per month. In 2 years back on the plane I don’t think that I’ve ever been awarded more than 80. If I was junior life would be very different and I’d be flying 85-90 hr lines. We can drop to zero providing that there’s coverage, but there’s never coverage. You can trade similar trips around, but until you’re senior enough to bid productive turns that people want, flat out dropping a trip will be tough.

Curious about your base and seat. I’m a g-line straddler (left seat) in a rapidly shrinking west coast base and when I get a line it’s 89.999999 hours, repeating of course. Working from memory on bid awards, I think you have to be north of 50% to get anything below about 80-85.

Hedley 04-20-2023 04:24 PM


Originally Posted by Galaxy5 (Post 3627129)
Curious about your base and seat. I’m a g-line straddler (left seat) in a rapidly shrinking west coast base and when I get a line it’s 89.999999 hours, repeating of course. Working from memory on bid awards, I think you have to be north of 50% to get anything below about 80-85.

737 captain in a rapidly expanding Midwest base currently sitting just under 40%. 50% is a probably good rough number and where my bidding power improved. I’m not as picky as some when it comes to bidding and that contributes to not being upset with my award. I don’t care where I go as long as it is commutable on both ends and no red eyes. Even at 60-70% when I upgraded, I could avoid red eyes and about 75% of my trips were commutable on both ends.

snackysmores 04-20-2023 04:56 PM


Originally Posted by Ni hao (Post 3627123)
You simply need to understand one thing about United. You will not be able to drop anything here. I never worked for any LCC but I hear great things about QOL.

You will not have that here at United. Max hours min days off. Think very very carefully about if you want to work here.

Will this improve with a new contract who knows. We are working under rules put in place with the merger.

Agreed, if you don’t have WB aspirations I would avoid coming here. The terrible QOL of NB flying feels like getting punched in the d1ck every day dealing with multi hub BS. I always pack for an extra 1-2 days because I often don’t make it home on the last day. Good luck getting your days off restored, there has to be min reserve coverage (there isn’t, ever). EWR is the 10th circle of hell, abandon hope all ye who enter.

Galaxy5 04-20-2023 07:54 PM


Originally Posted by Hedley (Post 3627137)
737 captain in a rapidly expanding Midwest base currently sitting just under 40%. 50% is a probably good rough number and where my bidding power improved. I’m not as picky as some when it comes to bidding and that contributes to not being upset with my award. I don’t care where I go as long as it is commutable on both ends and no red eyes. Even at 60-70% when I upgraded, I could avoid red eyes and about 75% of my trips were commutable on both ends.

Thanks, this has been a hell of an experiment. End of seat lock is coming probably before a new contract, probably not going to hang out after the lock is up hoping for enough in the new UPA. Off to the triple and 7 more days off a month.

Hedley 04-21-2023 04:29 AM


Originally Posted by Galaxy5 (Post 3627207)
Thanks, this has been a hell of an experiment. End of seat lock is coming probably before a new contract, probably not going to hang out after the lock is up hoping for enough in the new UPA. Off to the triple and 7 more days off a month.

Going to the 777 will be a game changer, especially out of SFO. The WB flying on the east coast has a bunch of low time Europe trips, but SFO is further away from everything except Hawaii. Productive and commutable 3 days are where it’s at, and you’ll find that WB flying here is a completely different airline. I left the right seat of the 777 when the pandemic was just spinning up. Great plane, and great trips, but I found that as I got older the fatigue was taking its toll. I’m just not wired for it. Being senior on the WB fleet in the right seat can also earn more money than being a NB captain without working more days. Once senior enough, you can bid exclusively the flying seat and then double dip when training buys your trip. The really senior can buddy bid with LCA’s and make a killing. A friend on the 787 does just that. He credits on average 120-130 hours per month while working fewer days than I do. I can’t gross the same without crediting 105+. Unless you can bid really heavy soft time trips and work every day, you’ll hit FAR limits before you get close to 100+ hrs a month since premium pay has dried up. My guess is the fatigue on the 777 will be less than the garbage trips you get as a junior captain. If I was in your shoes I’d have my bid in just waiting for it to hit.

Spesiellsporing 04-21-2023 04:45 AM


Originally Posted by BlueScholar (Post 3627005)
When you're on probation they certainly can fire you for not being a good fit, and not reliably making it to work meets that definition, even if you are abiding by the 2 flight rule. I do not plan on using the "2 flight rule" at all while I'm on probation, and I recommend all new hires do the same. Now if you're off probation and a full member of the union? Completely different.

edit: I'll add in that in my CPO welcome, they talked about 3 strikes for probation members before you're in serious danger of being fired. Dropping dead due to medical/passport/CBT's expiring and not being in position for a trip were the 2 most common strikes, and I didn't ask about how the commuting policy factored in there. But I take that as a warning to not need the commuter policy more than 2-3 times if you want to stay off the radar.

How times have sadly changed.

hummingbear 04-21-2023 04:54 AM

What’s the ability to fly compressed schedules on WB fleets? Assuming long layover trips, what’s the shortest time off between trips PBS will allow?


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