ATP Practical Requirement
 

I know Delta recently removed their ATP practical requirement for applying. I heard a few rumors about United following suit in the near future but haven’t seen anything official. I was just wondering if anyone had any insight into whether there might be any truth to the rumor.

If true, that scraping noise you'll hear is the bottom of the barrel.

It might have changed with the new ATP requirements but Delta never required the practical prior to that. Written was all you needed complete.

UA has been scraping the bottom of the barrel for a while now.....

The airline industry has been scrapping the bottom of the barrel for some time. And they 1000% did it to themselves.

Maybe for civilian applicants, but as a military guy all the ATP practical proved was that I had 4K in my bank account. I was flying a multi engine cargo plane in and out of combat zones around the world for years, but I had to prove to the FAA I could fly a little 2 engine piper, and those 4.5 hours was the difference between being a qualified applicant or not?

Delta doesn’t have that requirement, are they scraping the bottom of the barrel?

Combat zone just meant you had to turn your lights off 😜

Like driving down a country road with your headlights off, at high speed.

100%. Everybody is.

I thought that sound was the tail of an Airbus?

Many, many years ago I got hired with a Single Engine ATP. I never got a Multi-engine ATP until I checked out as a 747-400 F/O some 14 years later.

Joe

Man, you guys love talking about scraping the bottom of the barrel. Well let me tell you my short story about riding the jumpseat on Southwest.

I was a 747 FO with 5K+ 121 (1800+ 121 PIC, LCA, ERAU, no DUI and in the JS at Southwest and an app on file(for every window the past 5 years). As we pulled into the gate the FO said to the CA, "Hey have you seen who we're hiring? We're really desperate and really scraping the bottom fo the barrel." I didn't say anything, but I regretted not saying anything. It kinda pretty not great. Not saying we are hiring the cream of the crop at United, but be aware of who reads this forum and have some humility.

Maybe they didn't hire you because you told everyone you went to Embry Riddle?

When you ride on jump seats, and when you read things on the internet the first item on your preflight is “put on your big boy pants”. That’s so you don’t get your little feel feels hurt.

I usually pack a chocolate SnackPack pudding cup to hand to the blue hairs talking about scraping the bottom of the barrel. Or just ask them what it was like back in ‘Nam.

As long as you carry a portable safe space it’ll all be alright.

And honestly, I know this is the interwebs where all things are true. But in reality how often do you hear the “blue hairs” talking about bottom scraping and how often do the neophytes need to be comforted while riding the jump seat?

Remember everyone gets a participation trophy.

kind of agree. The difference between someone with 2k hrs and 10k is almost negligible. They’re guys with 10k hrs and honestly terrible pilots in either seat. There are guys with less than 2k who are really sharp. Hrs is a really poor want to judge someone’s ability and chance of success. Hiring lower time pilots is far from scrapping the bottom of the barrel. Half the people on the upper end of any company seniority list are made up of guys who got hired at 250 hrs. So yeah some humility would be nice and remember everyone was new at one point

if you are talking stick and rudder I agree, however there is huge difference in everything else from weather, to energy managment, to panic level and how they handle all these and 800 more.

ha!

I had to read that a few times thinking what certificate of endorsement is a “ERAU”, maybe he’s from Europe or something, then I got it lol

Yeah where you learned how to fly a 172 should be kinda pointless at this stage in your career

No no no

Hours are experience, more experience more better..er

Now what I can say is the quality of the hours should be a factor, flying the same hour over and over isn’t worth as much as more dynamic flying, however it seems the airlines would prefer more 121 time sitting in the FLs to more challenging dynamic flying, but it’s their party I guess

hours doesn’t always equal experience though and that’s due to the quality of hours. Idc if it’s 121, 135, 91 turbine or piston. I’ve flown with captains who got scared of landing flaps 3 in a bus, who got worried landing on a downhill runway, who almost diverted immediately when we were put in a hold. These guys had 8 yrs plus 121 time. You would have never known by the lack of decision making and confidence.

generally speaking yes I’d agree with you that someone with 10 years of airline experience will have overall a better handle on things. But there’s still new guys out there who are just as sharp or sharper than some of those guys with way more time.

I agree that 121 time should be bottom of the barrel for working pilot time

But you get a guy with a good deal of serious 91 or 135 time, with no incidents accidents or enforcement actions, I’d wager he’s much more sharp than any 200hr wonder and probably many 121 guys

imo personality and intelligence plays a huge role too. Some people just aren’t decision makers or leaders. You stick someone like that in a position that requires it’s and it doesn’t matter how much time they have. You can only rely on past experiences so much. That’s where I’m coming from when I say there are plenty of guys out there with low time that are more competent than guys out there with thousands of hours.

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment.

Total hours is a suspect meter of ability. 14000 hr guy who spends half the time in a bunk of a WB vs 2500 RJ guy or gal doing 4-6 legs a day in the crap weather… 121 landings or legs flown should be a better gauge.

I’m pretty sure that WB guy has a lot more than 2500 hours flying pistons/turboprops without a magenta line or autopilot.

Not anymore...that WB guy in the bunk may very well be a new hire w/ 0 PIC time lol