Latest MEC Message
 

I suggest taking the time the time to read the message dated Nov 13.

I don’t know how anyone paying attention to how the company was negotiating UPA23, the LCAL money, or unilaterally revoking the covid LOA thinks this is surprising at all.

I’m happy with our deal but it was pretty apparent to me that the Oscar sunshine and rainbows phase was over.

I find these latest examples of “discipline” as a serious threat to Captains authority. Be careful out there and take your time.

Whatever he is referring to sounds horrible, but also vague. Can anyone speak to, in general details (to protect those involved) what happened? Ie, what could possibly go so wrong to be in this type of situation and how does one avoid it?

the part about one example being in FSAP concerned me as well...

We are fast becoming like Great Lakes!?!? This message is very concerning!!!

I don't know what happened, but on the forums someone from the ERC said United had been notified of whatever this (or these) incidents were outside of the FSAP process. Apparently the incident was severe enough it isn't covered by the FSAP MOU. It was implied the FAA may also be involved in whatever it was.

the union is doing what it should do and telling our crews to be vigilant during this chaotic growth period.

I gurantee there is ALOT more to these vague stories. These pilots most likely were not out just doing their job.

Just because an FSAP was filed doesn’t necessarily mean the event was sole source or self disclosed. Program was never designed to be a get out of jail free card after other entities became aware of the incident. For example, if you go out and cause a runway incursion and get a pilot deviation you can’t just file an FSAP and the whole thing automatically goes away. They just can’t use the content of the FSAP against you and your self disclosure may cause the powers that be to let the ERC counsel you instead of turning it in to a bigger deal. No idea the specifics on this event but the fact that one example being in an FSAP isn’t surprising or necessarily egregious to me.

I have some experience as a neutral party during discipline issues. I have never seen an innocent party treated as a scape goat. What I have seen is the union empowering a pilot to act like a petulant child after they have done something wrong (told a clearly racist joke in public, physically intimidated a gate agent, lied about expenses, etc). The pilot will plead the fifth, act as though it’s not a big deal or generally act as though they are a defendant in a criminal case and the burden is proof beyond a reasonable doubt. What they don’t understand is that if the company is bringing you in for an interview, they already know what happened and are assessing how you FEEL about the situation, not if you actually did it. The pilots also fail to realize that the union reps have ego/pride involved in the hearing and may not always give you advice that will get you back on line with the minimum consequence.

Long story short, I have never seen a pilot who came in and said: “I don’t know where my head was, that will never happen again” have the book thrown at them. But I definitely have seen pilots who fought things, despite being in the wrong, receive an unreasonable consequence that they then had to appeal and try and reduce. And very rarely do the months of bureaucratic appeal time end up being paid.

YMMV

So in this woke environment, you are guilty until proven Democrat……I mean innocent. I understand this is not a “court of law” but rather employee/employer relations. But saying the Company already “knows” the alleged story without hearing both sides of the argument is a dangerous position to be in. My take is stay off the internet/SM, stay off the PA other than required announcements, know the UPA and take your time/be vigilant.

The irony that you can see that woke-sters seeing racism absolutely everywhere is detrimental to society, yet you don’t see that seeing woke-ism any where people ask: “ could things be done better?” is perhaps lost on you .

I’ve seen plenty of “he said she said” that went nowhere because it couldn’t be substantiated (IE an impartial witness wasn’t present). The system is far from perfect, but I don’t think constantly looking over your shoulder is warranted or beneficial to your mental health.

like I said, YMMV

Odd. You read “he said she said” yet I read Captain’s authority in the message.

For those new to Captain’s authority ask your union. It’s not absolute and falls within boundaries. Within said boundaries it is absolute.

You may be questioned . Before you make your decision ensure it is well reasoned and by all means trust your instinct. The conservative Captain provides the most value of safety.

Simply put, what would you do if your family was back there?

of course Captains authority is not absolute but we all know the Aholes who think it is…..Everyone can name a handful of pilots that deserve a year off without pay…..I would bet these pilots the email outlined are probably 1%ers and probably are on no fly lists. If we heard their name we would probably say yeah that makes sense.

The MEC Chairman has been guarded in the content and timing of his messages. Do you really think he’d undertake this email solely for those you described above?

The Union is duty bound to defend all dues paying pilots including those that shouldn’t be protected. I have seen some pilots do and say some extremely dumb stuff where there were carpet dances involved. Most of these individuals had closets full of skeletons and they are still flying airplanes, still LCPs, still Evaluators……

I get the point of the email it’s basically the same email we get every month from the PSC. People are not getting along. Also the ALPA CASC people aren’t flying SOP.

I am a nice guy who uses CAs Authority as intended and utilize SOP. That letter is not meant for me. It’s meant for the angry arrogant Aholes and the pilots who fly an airplane like it’s their own Cessna and don’t care about the manual.

quite frankly those people need a shot of reality if we are going to keep an airplane out of the dirt during this time of chaotic growth. We are hiring so many pilots bad apples will get through…..how do we deal with them?

Ding ding ding.

MoP gets it and is absolutely right.

But but it's all the fault of the woke facist agenda! I swear!

We have continue to assert that Pilot Hiring, at least the interview pilots, understand that it’s not a Pilot Instructors job to perform remedial training in basic airmanship. Similarly, Pilot Instructors and Evaluators should understand that an LCPs job isn’t to provide core competency flying lessons.

If weak pilots are still showing up on the line, it’s a Captain’s responsibility to mentor, debrief, AND complete the probationary report based on observed behavior and performance. It’s our collective responsibility to callout unsat performance and document it.

Look at today’s snapshot and notice all of the Delayed Pilot spots. 1 year captains are going to be the new norm for the foreseeable future.

Wokeism?

Good Lord.

I also have some experience with the diciplinary process as a disinterested observer. My takeaway is similar to the intelligently explained post on page 1 and MoP. The folks that get in trouble generally tend to fall into two categories:

Anybody who has a problem with being truthful. ("I never put my hands on that person and walked them off MY jet!")

Anybody who's angry and clueless enought to think their job as Captain is to put their hands on a contractor and "help" them off the jet. (Or any other really dumb behavior at work. Stuff you've got to see to believe.)

I've also observed that those who cry about Captain's authority loudest are those that routinely cede it to others. It's fun and easy to kvetch about it. It takes integrity and courage and emotional intelligence to put your foot down and do the right thing.

I've never had my authority questioned in over 25 years here.

You lost me when you used “duty” and “union” in the same sentence. We’ve all been robbed by high level union leaders who don’t understand the word duty but instead use their union positions for politically self serving purposes.

There should be a litmus test that requires this concept of duty and service to the pilot group to be understood and ascribed to for all who want to run for union office.

to be clear, I think our union is largely good and serves a purpose to strengthen our bargaining position and prevent the company from making unilateral disciplinary decisions (among many other great things: HIMS, lobbying, etc). But, from my own personal experience, more often than not, the union rep isn’t the grown-up in the room during a discipline hearing.

as was said, the percent of pilots that face discipline is less than the percent I’d rather not fly with. Until that ratio flips, I don’t think we’re in an overly punitive workplace.