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QOLmax 12-08-2023 05:38 AM

Short call question
 
Sat SC recently on the last day of my reserve block (next day was HDO). I was thinking that at some point during the 14-hr SC, I am essentially useless to scheduling. Using a 2am-4pm SC at EWR as an example, I figured after about 10am or so, I can't legally be assigned anymore. Assuming a quick out-and-back, 45 min flight each way with a 45 min ground time, no FDP extension, and no irregular ops...

10am notify by scheds of 2.5 hr call-out
1230 report
1330-1415 leg 1
1415-1500 ground time
1500-1545 leg 2
1545-1600 "debrief"

Anything missing from my assumptions? Does scheduling have any guidelines for releasing early in this case? (Yes, I know the contract allows release if unassigned at 1600, 1500 in UPA23.)

JTwift 12-08-2023 05:55 AM


Originally Posted by QOLmax (Post 3733610)
Sat SC recently on the last day of my reserve block (next day was HDO). I was thinking that at some point during the 14-hr SC, I am essentially useless to scheduling. Using a 2am-4pm SC at EWR as an example, I figured after about 10am or so, I can't legally be assigned anymore. Assuming a quick out-and-back, 45 min flight each way with a 45 min ground time, no FDP extension, and no irregular ops...

10am notify by scheds of 2.5 hr call-out
1230 report
1330-1415 leg 1
1415-1500 ground time
1500-1545 leg 2
1545-1600 "debrief"

Anything missing from my assumptions? Does scheduling have any guidelines for releasing early in this case? (Yes, I know the contract allows release if unassigned at 1600, 1500 in UPA23.)

did you pick it up, or was it assigned?

QOLmax 12-08-2023 06:12 AM


Originally Posted by JTwift (Post 3733612)
did you pick it up, or was it assigned?

Picked it up, but does that make a difference?

Myfingershurt 12-08-2023 06:22 AM


Originally Posted by QOLmax (Post 3733610)
Sat SC recently on the last day of my reserve block (next day was HDO). I was thinking that at some point during the 14-hr SC, I am essentially useless to scheduling. Using a 2am-4pm SC at EWR as an example, I figured after about 10am or so, I can't legally be assigned anymore. Assuming a quick out-and-back, 45 min flight each way with a 45 min ground time, no FDP extension, and no irregular ops...

10am notify by scheds of 2.5 hr call-out
1230 report
1330-1415 leg 1
1415-1500 ground time
1500-1545 leg 2
1545-1600 "debrief"

Anything missing from my assumptions? Does scheduling have any guidelines for releasing early in this case? (Yes, I know the contract allows release if unassigned at 1600, 1500 in UPA23.)

is there something in your contract that says you have to released by the end of your SC period or just assigned something that departs before the end of your 117 limit?

JTwift 12-08-2023 07:39 AM


Originally Posted by QOLmax (Post 3733622)
Picked it up, but does that make a difference?

20-K-6-h A Short Call Reserve shall be released at 1400 on their last day of reserve, unless by that time they have either received an assignment or been notified to complete their Short Call.

This Section 20-K-6-h shall not apply to a Reserve who aggressively picks up a short call
assignment that begins at 1400 or later on their last day of reserve. If a Reserve is assigned a
short call assignment that begins at 1400 or later on their last day of reserve, they must be
explicitly notified at time of assignment that they will be completing their short call; if they are not so notified, they are not required to sit the short call assignment, and the assignment
is considered to be ‘unused’.

St Exupery 12-08-2023 08:03 AM


Originally Posted by QOLmax (Post 3733610)
Sat SC recently on the last day of my reserve block (next day was HDO). I was thinking that at some point during the 14-hr SC, I am essentially useless to scheduling. Using a 2am-4pm SC at EWR as an example, I figured after about 10am or so, I can't legally be assigned anymore. Assuming a quick out-and-back, 45 min flight each way with a 45 min ground time, no FDP extension, and no irregular ops...

10am notify by scheds of 2.5 hr call-out
1230 report
1330-1415 leg 1
1415-1500 ground time
1500-1545 leg 2
1545-1600 "debrief"

Anything missing from my assumptions? Does scheduling have any guidelines for releasing early in this case? (Yes, I know the contract allows release if unassigned at 1600, 1500 in UPA23.)


If you're given an assignment on the last day of your reserve block you would need to be released prior to 2359 LBT in order to not disrupt your HDO and trigger add pay. The timeline you put out fits fine for a short call assignment at 1600 LBT (old rules) and still gets you back before the day is over.

TOGALOCK 12-08-2023 08:17 AM


Originally Posted by St Exupery (Post 3733699)
If you're given an assignment on the last day of your reserve block you would need to be released prior to 2359 LBT in order to not disrupt your HDO and trigger add pay. The timeline you put out fits fine for a short call assignment at 1600 LBT (old rules) and still gets you back before the day is over.

An 0200 short call wouldn’t be legal for a 1600 assignment. A short call FDP starts at the time of the reserve period and they are good for 16 hours OR 117 table b + 4 hours - Whichever is less. So in the case of an 0200 short call, they need to duty off no later than 1500. Unfortunately, a deadhead on the backend wouldn’t count however and would be the only legal way of going past 1500.

Otterbox 12-08-2023 08:18 AM


Originally Posted by QOLmax (Post 3733610)
Sat SC recently on the last day of my reserve block (next day was HDO). I was thinking that at some point during the 14-hr SC, I am essentially useless to scheduling. Using a 2am-4pm SC at EWR as an example, I figured after about 10am or so, I can't legally be assigned anymore. Assuming a quick out-and-back, 45 min flight each way with a 45 min ground time, no FDP extension, and no irregular ops...

10am notify by scheds of 2.5 hr call-out
1230 report
1330-1415 leg 1
1415-1500 ground time
1500-1545 leg 2
1545-1600 "debrief"

Anything missing from my assumptions? Does scheduling have any guidelines for releasing early in this case? (Yes, I know the contract allows release if unassigned at 1600, 1500 in UPA23.)

They could call you out later, fly you until contract/FDP limit and DH you back to base by midnight and still be good.

QOLmax 12-08-2023 08:35 AM


Originally Posted by St Exupery (Post 3733699)
If you're given an assignment on the last day of your reserve block you would need to be released prior to 2359 LBT in order to not disrupt your HDO and trigger add pay. The timeline you put out fits fine for a short call assignment at 1600 LBT (old rules) and still gets you back before the day is over.

In my particular example, SC started at 0200. Since that time is considered a RAP per FAR117, my max FDP would be shortest of (A) Table B limits + 4 hrs, which is 13 hrs, or (B) 16 hrs. So max RAP + FDP is 13 hrs, meaning FDP must end by 3pm.

With that said, my example in the 1st post would hold true... I can't legally be assigned anything after about 10am, without requiring an FDP extension or disruption of HDO, correct?

Ice Bear 12-08-2023 08:52 AM


Originally Posted by QOLmax (Post 3733725)
In my particular example, SC started at 0200. Since that time is considered a RAP per FAR117, my max FDP would be shortest of (A) Table B limits + 4 hrs, which is 13 hrs, or (B) 16 hrs. So max RAP + FDP is 13 hrs, meaning FDP must end by 3pm.

With that said, my example in the 1st post would hold true... I can't legally be assigned anything after about 10am, without requiring an FDP extension or disruption of HDO, correct?

Super common misunderstanding that your max RAP+FDP is based on the time your RAP started. It's actually based on your report time. Let's take your example. You get called at 1000, reporting at 1230. Table B shows a maximum 13 hours of FDP if you start at 1230. 13 + 4 = 17 hours, but as you mentioned, 16 is the max. So 16 hours is the max RAP+FDP. Now you take that 16 hours and apply it from the 0200 start, meaning they could use you all the way to 6pm. The last caveat is the contract allows them to go one more hour if the final leg is a deadhead, so technically you could be used til 7pm. In this particular case, using your example of two 45-minute flights with a 45-minute break, you could be called as late as 1pm (called at 1300, report 1530, 1630 departure, deadhead back arrives 1845... Edit: actually 1315, the 15-minute debrief doesn't count towards FDP).


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