PBS software
 

Does anyone use one of the PBS services? Trying to figure out if is worth it.

I will forever promote BidNav. I think it's worth every penny.

I was told that once the new PBS interface goes live no one should need a separate service to bid for them.

We shall see (at some point).

The key to good bidding is seniority. Can't buy it

You are paying for laziness......what's that worth to you??

The guides explaining the software and processing logic aren't any more difficult than figuring out CCS+ (something we SHOULD NOT HAVE to do)....YES it will take a lot of time....but the coding aspect of it is not very difficult

THIS ...... all day.

It’s not laziness, it’s efficiency. I’d rather spend time with the family than sorting through PBS. That said I’m going to be reserve for a long time and currently spend about ten minutes bidding.

Most of the folks who use software use BidNav. I used it for a couple months with reasonable success but honestly looking at how experienced folks construct their lines and seeing what has and hasn't worked is equally good.

If you want to save $50/month when you're on first year pay your best bet is to find experienced bidders willing to share. You'd be amazed at how many folks love talking about how they bid and showing their standing bids to you when you're flying.

PBS threads always catch my attention. At DAL, everyone's bids are published in a report at the same time our schedules are posted. This is THE best way to learn how to bid. Find the schedule you like the most and go see how they bid. If you guys don't already have that, I'd say it's worth getting. PBS logic isn't all that hard to figure out and is a huge QOL piece, I can't imagine not learning it. But I understand some just can't/won't figure it out. I spend multiple coffee sessions trying to teach my neighbor how to bid. He finally gave up and hired a service. Looking at how they bid, it's extremely basic but get's him what he wants, so it's clearly worth his money.

And don’t forget to use the bidding resources that ALPA and the company already provide for no extra cost. The PBS support people are line pilots who have saved my bacon a few times by explaining why my BATs have failed and also given me small refinement strategies to tweak my bids; my results have improved quite a bit because of their input.

Given that we’re supposed to be seeing PBS 2.0 sometime this year (?) you might want to get used to using the resources that are already available. The support contact information is shown in the upper right hand corner of your bidding screen.

FWIW

Is that Navtech over there? Love NavTech! I think there would be less people needing to pay to have someone bid for them at United if we used NavTech....but possibly that's by design

Navblue is the software we use for PBS. It's pretty good, but just like I assume it is over there, there are plenty who hate it. It still needs a fair amount of work though.

I used it, it was great, I cancelled it when I thought I figured it out and promptly messed up a bid and missed getting holiday pay. Fortunately I was able to get it in open time, but that one mistake would have paid for almost 2 years worth of a bidnav subscription.
Bidding isn’t rocket science but this is more efficient and a great sanity check. You could spend hours trying to figure out how to work the system or try to look at how similar minding folks bid or you can just plug what you want into tripnav or bidnav and move on with your life.

I'm just glad I took a C++ computer programming class in college...

Anyone know if there's any merit to the new PBS actually arriving anytime soon??? I've been hearing this since I was hired around 2.5 years ago...

Supposedly there is a class in March for committee chairs to take part in so they can get a first look at it. Sounds like we should see something soon.

It's been in the works since before Covid, but no one seems to know when the company will actually pull the trigger.

Will Bidnav be a good help for a junior to get a long streched dayoffs?

I dont mind redeyes, working in a row, and work on weekends..

I know the seniority matters all but i was wondering if the softwares would help me a bit get what I wish to get.

What about Aircrewedge? Good as well?

If you are intelligent, you can do it yourself... If not, pay someone else simple as that

I will add that the PBS software is about to change. I would wait as these services might be completely defunct in 2 bid periods.

Junior 737 FO here (~60% in base, ~80% of lineholders). I've actually had plenty of luck getting 10-11 day stretches off in a row, for the past 5-6 months, when I've been both above and below the G-line. (Currently writing this from Melbourne, Oz on our fourth 10-day getaway in as many months.)

You don't need BidNav to help make this happen. I've used BidNav quite a bit for almost the past year, but I find that I probably don't need it anymore. But back to your question:

One quirk of PBS (which BidNav can't help with) is that there is no way to request "give me any 10 days off in a row, I don't care which dates, I just want 10 days off in a row." You have to specify a certain set of dates. Naturally, if you want *any* stretch of 10 days off, that's not too hard to get. You just plug in a different set of 10-day breaks into your bid groups. Here's how I do it:

1) I use all 20 bid groups. In the first 10 bid groups, I'll pick 10 sets of 10-day-off breaks. I figure I have a decent chance of getting at least one of these requests. I also improve that probability by waiving everything. (BidNav tells you not to do this, but if you waive everything, you're more likely to get the 10 days off you want.)

So for example my first 10 bid groups look really simple:

Bid Group 1:
1. WAIVE Min days between work blocks 1
2. WAIVE 1 in 7 Day Off in Base
3. WAIVE Double Duty Restriction
4. WAIVE Duty in consecutive WOCLs
5. AVOID Work 07 Apr -- 17 Apr
6. AWARD Work 01 Apr 0001 -- 30 Apr 2359 (L-)

Bid Group 2 is the exact same as above, except I change the dates in Row 5 (Avoid) to different dates.

2) In the second set of 10 bid groups, I do the same as above, except I shorten the block of 10 days off to blocks of 8 days off. (I can still do a decent vacation in 8 days.) If I can't get 10 days off, then I'll take 8.

Now, there are some HUGE caveats to this approach.

First: waiving all four line properties means that in the parts of the month that you're working, you will wind up working pretty intensely. Last month, I got 11 days off at the start of the month...and then had to work three (3) 4-days in a row, with only one full day off between 2 of those 4-days. In between the other pair of 4-days, I had less than 24 hours off between the two trips. All of this was due to the waives in lines 1, 2, and 3 of the above bid group.

So, BidNav will recommend that you don't waive these line properties. But if you're OK with a really intense set of work blocks, then I find this approach has worked really well for me (so far, 5 months of bidding this way has given me 5 10-day vacations without using any vacation time.)

Another option you could do is, in bid groups 1-10, just do what I posted above, but do NOT waive any of the line properties. Then in groups 11-20, just copy over groups 1-10, but add the four WAIVE lines at the front of each bid group.

It all depends on what's most important to you. I personally just wanted to take a bunch of international vacations over the US wintertime, so the resultant intensity of my work schedules when I wasn't on vacation, was fine with me. For summertime, though, I'll bid completely differently.

Good luck!

Wow, I’m really impressed by your detailed explanation and help. I truly appreciate it. I always thought AVOID and AWARD were the key, but I never imagined that WAIVE would actually be the higher priority factor. With this method, since it naturally includes redeyes, working on weekends, and 3-4 day trips—the kinds of trips most people try to avoid—it makes perfect sense that it increases the chances of getting the long stretch of days off that I’m aiming for. This insight is really eye-opening. Thanks again! Enjoy you stay in MEL!

Thanks. After line bidding and NavBlue, I am definitely not up and running withPBS here, so this helps. And I am junior to you, so there is that!

Good news is we are getting a new pbs soon so it’ll all be back to square one for everyone

Not really. The interface is different and some of the nomenclature has changed but it's very simliar to the current version, albeit more capable. Still the same ruleset (UPA) and backend, also.

They did an exceptional job with it, in my opinion. I think it's substationally more intuitive and caters well to the lowest common denominator while also allowing the "power user" to really fine-tune their bid. They really have made it possible to bid a solid bid in just a couple of minutes.

I know there will be plenty of people bemoaning any change, but we had a lot of very intelligent people working on this and assuming the production platform is as good as the one I've seen, I think I won't be alone in being impressed.

As a lowest common denominator I'm cautiously pessimistic. Definitely hope it will be better, I'm new to the system, but finding it hard after navblue to know how/what to do, even after reading a lot of the help guides.

I assure you, it's a colossal improvement. It's incredibly intuitive and includes an AutoBid function where you simply tell it your top 5 or so preferences and it'll build and submit a bid for you. Of course, you can still edit it.

It has a lot of advanced features which you may not use, but you won't need to. I think the days are largely gone where people can "gain" seniority by bidding better than people senior to them.

did I miss the training link? Or have I just not gotten it yet?

Read the CCS message sent out on March 13th.

Is it still using the Jeppessen program behind the scenes and basically a more user friendly interface to enter your bids, or is it a completely new system? I seem to think I read it is the first that I mention but can't remember!

Its a new interface...

It's sort of both; it’s the same Jepp backend but with a new interface with more capabilities than the previous one.

New stuff includes more weights per flight line bid group, Autobid, the ability to upgrade/downgrade trips with specific criteria, build your own combination statements, etc.

FWIW.

That does sound great. And thanks for taking the time to reply. Also, as a VERY junior guy, bummer 😁

I saved your thia to use in my next bid. Very detailed. Thank you

I disagree . I tried using bid nav for a few months and didn’t get any better results than when I was bidding on my own. Your experience may vary though .
im going to try the pbs2.0 on my own first and see what happens.

only works if you live in base. Try this as a commuter and your life will be horrible

Bidnav was really good at giving me a bunch of domestic garbage that was uncommutable. Used it two months and then dumped it.

PBS 2.0 has given me what I had figured out how to get in PBS 1.0 (on my own after my BidNav experiment), but it still leaves mid-level widebody FO's in the dust when it comes to getting a mix of PF and IRO. Plus the screen format/layout is dogsheit.

save your money and use the autobid in pbs2.0… I’ve been tracking results in these mock bids and it does a really nice job if you put in the right “desires”…