Originally Posted by kc135driver (Post 859350)

But this abuse that you have such an issue with is like .1% of the occurrences.

Originally Posted by Lambourne (Post 859604)

Have to ask. How do you know it is .1%? Thus are you admitting that abuse actually takes place?

The 767 FO's are skewing that average if I am to believe the bravado. I have even asked them what happens if they get caught and every single one has said they have a CO that covers for them. One in particular was upset when the company asked him for orders he didn't have. He spent the better part of a transcon trying to figure out a way to use USERRA to protect his lack of orders. He just wanted time off.

That's the integrity side of ML I get to see. There is plenty more FO's that I hear talking about milking the system. If you are going to toss out an unscientific .1%, I'll throw in an equally unscientific 20% that abuse ML.

Originally Posted by kc135driver (Post 859621)

No scientific data here, it is a guess like yours.

Lets first try to define what abuse is. I can only speak for my unit but I have never heard of anybody using ML leave without actual ML duty. That's all the law really requires. Whether it is flying a local, going to a required drill weekend or just manning the office, all are viewed equally according to USERRA, deliberately. Its intent is to allow workers the time off to perform whatever military duty their unit needs or is required without negative repercussions. Its no more perfect than anything else but it is what it is. If you have a better way I'd love to hear it, however, just tossing us all out is not the answer.

To side with you, if a guy is ML dropping WITHOUT ML duty then that is abuse and should be dealt with by others. Having orders is really not an indicator however. There are something like 12-14 different pay statuses in the military and not all are the classic set of orders most people think. If I come in a fly a local on an AFTP I will have ZERO paperwork to show an employer ahead of time, aside from the letter from my supervisor. Even orders are hard to get ahead of time, I deploy in a week for 85 days and still have no orders in hand (it is a government system!).

My point is don't rush to judgment and ask questions. I can't speak for the FO you flew with as a I don't have all of the specifics. When I was on the property I was always very careful how I used ML and what I said so to the other guy so that there would be no confusion. I can tell you an airline/guard combo is a lot like having two wives, neither is completely happy with you all the time and sometimes all you want is to just get away from both (hence why a guy is happy about NOT having to fly that entire 95 hr crappy PBS line in addition to 8 days at the base, hence "subjugating" their seniority). If you fly with a guy who is ecstatic because they got a day off as a result of ML dropping something please bear in mind that they probably had to give up something first to get to that result.

Finally, honoring the seniority system in the process really is not possible all the time. If you were on reserve and had to fly that Christmas trip because I was out on a mission, sorry dude, but please at least learn the facts and give your co-worker the benefit of the doubt before you make up your mind. You have every right to ask and we have every right to fully explain.

KC

Originally Posted by Airhoss (Post 859726)

This all wonderful and very informative. I support our military guard and reserve pilots and have no illusions about holding down two jobs one civilian and one military as being a cake walk. However what does this have to do with the UAL/CAL merger?

Why don't you guys start a dedicated thread and bugger off here?

Originally Posted by HercAC (Post 859745)

Perhaps to warn CAL guys that milaphobia exist at UAL and the need to be careful of who you confess your abuses too. Seriously, a thread on the subject was recently closed due to TOS violations: http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ma...tary-bias.html. So, of course, the retoric migrated here. Thus, I'm surprised this one is still open.

AC

Originally Posted by syd111 (Post 859769)

Herc, this really is not true at Ual. Don't feel that way just because one or two people on this site make those comments about military guys, that does not speak for all the pilots. There is a big mix of pilots at united with all different backgrounds, I routinely fly with military from all branches, corporate, regional folks, general aviation and most get along great and mix well in the cockpit and on layovers.

Originally Posted by syd111 (Post 859769)

Herc, this really is not true at Ual. Don't feel that way just because one or two people on this site make those comments about military guys, that does not speak for all the pilots. There is a big mix of pilots at united with all different backgrounds, I routinely fly with military from all branches, corporate, regional folks, general aviation and most get along great and mix well in the cockpit and on layovers.

Originally Posted by luv757 (Post 859989)

I think we will find that this is the case with both groups about a lot of things. Most of us will get along fine, some of us won't. Both groups have a majority of good guys (and gals) that share a small space in an aluminum tube for days at a time, and we each have our people with an "interesting" take on life. In my own guard unit I have known UAL guys that I thought were a-holes and UAL guys that were truly awesome guys to go flying with. My experience jumpseating on UAL has been nothing but positive. I look forward to the chance to raise the bar with my new brothers and sisters and take this profession back to where it should be. The enemy is management.