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- - Longevity (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/52877-longevity.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsled (Post 857414)

1) I am not led to believe anything. I just read it verbatim from the DAL/NWA SLI award.....page 28..

"Summarizing, based on the record in its entirety, we conclude a four-category list, constructed on a Status and Category/Ratio basis, will properly respond to the demands of fairness and equity in the context of these particular facts."

2) If you think "Not all pilots consider super-long haul on the 777 desirable" will affect the sli, you are mistaken. That is comical.

3) <<CAL NB's pay more than UAL WB's, in most cases, anyway. The whole equipment argument is based on the premise that larger a/c pay better rates; not the case in this merger.>>

Where do you come up with this stuff? the Facts are: UAL's w/b rates are $190/132 per hr. That is $-3/-2 or a whopping 1.5% less than CALs w/b rates. The difference is UAL has WAAAY more w/b's than CAL, thus more guys earning those rates. CAL's n/b rates are nowhere near $190/132.

U guys should fence your wide-bodies, and 70 seaters. If your wide-bodies count, so should your 70 seat rj's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A320fumes (Post 857529)

U guys should fence your wide-bodies, and 70 seaters. If your wide-bodies count, so should your 70 seat rj's.

Fine if you don't want to negotiate in public; but can we get some input from some one not p1ssed-off from birth?!?

Quote:

Originally Posted by A320fumes (Post 857529)

U guys should fence your wide-bodies, and 70 seaters. If your wide-bodies count, so should your 70 seat rj's.

United has no 70 seaters. Is that all you got?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsled (Post 857558)

United has no 70 seaters. Is that all you got?

You are correct, UAL "HAS" no 70 seater's.....but there's A LOT of 70 seater's that have UAL painted on the side which is a direct result putting 1400+ UAL guys/gals on the street.....True statement.

Said it in the first page of this thread.....to attempt to 'discuss' (or as it's become, 'banter') this topic is pointless. Up to this point, there has been a few 'good' points by some, but this thread is surely (yes, Shirley) on it's way to being the 'slow train to no where' in the productivity department.

Did I mention 'pointless':rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by EWRflyr (Post 857407)

I don't even get involved in Seniority integration talks with any pilot for the simple fact that:

1. I have no say at the table

2. I have no VOTE on the outcome

3. An arbitrator will be making the final decision.

I'm serious when I say I do not spend time thinking about the SLI process and where I will fall on the list. There is not one thing I can do about it, and an arbitrator can decided to do whatever he/she wants. So, to me, even discussions about this topic are a waste of time as no two people will ever agree on how it should be and what should be taken into account.

This post here is 100% spot on. None of us will determine anything regarding this issue. Our opinions mean nothing and our actions will cause nothing.

Shannon

Fine, wimps! :D

Just trying to spread some understanding of where each pilot group was coming from. I guess we'll wait until after to start complaining to each other. And we'll all be ignorant as to what the rationale was...

"Monkeyfly squawk 2000"

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsled (Post 857558)

United has no 70 seaters. Is that all you got?

Not at all. UAL does fly lots of 777's and lot's of 70 seat rj's. Problem is, you want CAL pilots to subsidize your rj problem with our seniority. BTW, you've got over 1,440 furloughees. Since this is the case, Now we have to counter your exotic new form of SLI. Anyone who is not getting a paycheck is negotiating "Seniority Derivatives". The "Speculation" of what a furloughees seniority is worth vice a man with a paycheck in his hand is ludicrous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A320fumes (Post 857749)

Ludicrous to a scumbag behind a keyboard. To a furloughed guy with 11 years and 6 active, ready to fight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOTeric (Post 857830)

Ludicrous to a scumbag behind a keyboard. To a furloughed guy with 11 years and 6 active, ready to fight.

If I'm doing the math right, I'd think 5 years on furlough would take the fight out of most people. Geeze...it ain't that good of a job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsled (Post 857414)

3) <<CAL NB's pay more than UAL WB's, in most cases, anyway. The whole equipment argument is based on the premise that larger a/c pay better rates; not the case in this merger.>>

Where do you come up with this stuff? the Facts are: UAL's w/b rates are $190/132 per hr. That is $-3/-2 or a whopping 1.5% less than CALs w/b rates. The difference is UAL has WAAAY more w/b's than CAL, thus more guys earning those rates. CAL's n/b rates are nowhere near $190/132.

No dog in this fight, but just a point of fact, according to APC:

UAL has 78 aircraft paying max rate of 190/130,
CAL has 48 aircraft paying max rate of 193/132.

UAL has 132 aircraft paying max rate of 159/109
CAL has 221 aircraft paying max rate of 169/116

UAL has 152 aircraft paying max rate of 137/94
CAL has 76 aircraft paying max rate of 150/102

(CAL 737 Fleet average (2/3 LN, 1/3SN) 162/111)

of those
UAL has 35 767s in the middle pay band
CAL has 26 767s paying the top rate,

Short call reserve at CAL puts their 737-500 drivers ahead of UAL's 767 drivers in terms of guarantee.

UAL has 40% more aircraft @ the WB rate,
and 100% more aircraft at the SN rate.
Whereas CAL has 60% more 'middle class' aircraft.

UAL has a larger 'upper class', and a much larger 'lower class'.
But CAL's 'lower class' make almost the same as UAL's middle class.
(only about $3-400/month less on guarantee)

Given that CAL's pilots are cross utilized on small and large 737s, it certainly appears that almost all CAL drivers make as much as or more than UALs 767 drivers.
Or in other words, all CAL pilots have a better pay rate than 79% of UAL pilots.