CAL MEC Update
10-16-2010, 01:16 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 363
Originally Posted by iahflyr
Were you at United in 2000?? I'm really curious. They got an industry leading raise (wasn't it 48%) and were making ridiculous amounts of money. What happened there? The company was forced to give them something they couldn't afford, and what happened?
I am not always pro union. I pay my dues and I support being a unified pilot group. But I hate it when renegade people make unreasonable demands. The fact is our quality of life is the best when the company is doing well. I want the new United to do well. We make damn good pay as major airline pilots. We don't need a 30% raise on top of that just cause. I'd rather our company pay what other companies pay for the exact same job, and let our company be competitive. When the new United does well, we will benefit.
I want a raise similar to what Delta/Northwest got. I want to be compensated well, but not out of line with our biggest competitors (Delta, American, US Air). Otherwise, this contract may last for maybe 2 years just like UAL 2000 did, and then we'll have to suffer the consequences... Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of the past are due to repeat those mistakes in the future.
I am not always pro union. I pay my dues and I support being a unified pilot group. But I hate it when renegade people make unreasonable demands. The fact is our quality of life is the best when the company is doing well. I want the new United to do well. We make damn good pay as major airline pilots. We don't need a 30% raise on top of that just cause. I'd rather our company pay what other companies pay for the exact same job, and let our company be competitive. When the new United does well, we will benefit.
I want a raise similar to what Delta/Northwest got. I want to be compensated well, but not out of line with our biggest competitors (Delta, American, US Air). Otherwise, this contract may last for maybe 2 years just like UAL 2000 did, and then we'll have to suffer the consequences... Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of the past are due to repeat those mistakes in the future.
I was there and I can tell you that it is wrong to solely pin the bankruptcy on C2000. 9/11 and a host of other problems were bigger causes. I am not disagreeing with you that there was to be some level of reasonableness in any raise anywhere and that unions in general can get out of hand. However, given the past DECADE of pay cuts in every form possible in addition to inflation, C2000 is probably a good starting place.
We pilots need to stop this self-loathing and price what we are valued. Period. Mgmt will be trying to reduce their labor costs for the rest of time, we do not need to help them.
Best wishes-
KC
10-16-2010, 01:37 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Capt. B737
Posts: 329
And Iahflyr......could you elaborate on your response on this thread?
Quote:
I'm starting to think you're a management troll. And while I won't openly post my expectations for the JCBA...Delta +$1,( Gee Jeff....a whole dollar?),
doesn't come close to a yes vote. If you're happy with it....fine. But, you're gonna be thrilled with what the rest of us are willing to stand up for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EWRflyr
The Exception is United
While the US Airways regional jet operation has been the most consistently profitable and American the least profitable, Engel finds that United earns the most per regional jet and is the only carrier where the regional jet operation is more profitable than the mainline operation. According to Engel, United does much less non-hub flying with its regional jets than its peers, operates a higher percentage of larger regional jets (more than half have more than 50 seats) and leverages its powerful domestic and international connections to increase profits.
United generates 41% more revenue per 737-equivalent from its regional fleet than the industry as a whole, and Delta produces 16% less revenue per regional plane.
United pays least for its feed while American pays most. United spends 27% more per equivalent regional plane while garnering 41% more seat-miles and revenues. In contrast, American spends 10% more per regional aircraft while obtaining 4% fewer seat-miles and revenues.
Just something to think about...
The Exception is United
While the US Airways regional jet operation has been the most consistently profitable and American the least profitable, Engel finds that United earns the most per regional jet and is the only carrier where the regional jet operation is more profitable than the mainline operation. According to Engel, United does much less non-hub flying with its regional jets than its peers, operates a higher percentage of larger regional jets (more than half have more than 50 seats) and leverages its powerful domestic and international connections to increase profits.
United generates 41% more revenue per 737-equivalent from its regional fleet than the industry as a whole, and Delta produces 16% less revenue per regional plane.
United pays least for its feed while American pays most. United spends 27% more per equivalent regional plane while garnering 41% more seat-miles and revenues. In contrast, American spends 10% more per regional aircraft while obtaining 4% fewer seat-miles and revenues.
Just something to think about...
doesn't come close to a yes vote. If you're happy with it....fine. But, you're gonna be thrilled with what the rest of us are willing to stand up for.
10-16-2010, 01:52 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Retired
Posts: 230
Originally Posted by iahflyr
Were you at United in 2000?? I'm really curious. They got an industry leading raise (wasn't it 48%) and were making ridiculous amounts of money. What happened there? The company was forced to give them something they couldn't afford, and what happened?
I am not always pro union. I pay my dues and I support being a unified pilot group. But I hate it when renegade people make unreasonable demands. The fact is our quality of life is the best when the company is doing well. I want the new United to do well. We make damn good pay as major airline pilots. We don't need a 30% raise on top of that just cause. I'd rather our company pay what other companies pay for the exact same job, and let our company be competitive. When the new United does well, we will benefit.
I want a raise similar to what Delta/Northwest got. I want to be compensated well, but not out of line with our biggest competitors (Delta, American, US Air). Otherwise, this contract may last for maybe 2 years just like UAL 2000 did, and then we'll have to suffer the consequences... Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of the past are due to repeat those mistakes in the future.
I am not always pro union. I pay my dues and I support being a unified pilot group. But I hate it when renegade people make unreasonable demands. The fact is our quality of life is the best when the company is doing well. I want the new United to do well. We make damn good pay as major airline pilots. We don't need a 30% raise on top of that just cause. I'd rather our company pay what other companies pay for the exact same job, and let our company be competitive. When the new United does well, we will benefit.
I want a raise similar to what Delta/Northwest got. I want to be compensated well, but not out of line with our biggest competitors (Delta, American, US Air). Otherwise, this contract may last for maybe 2 years just like UAL 2000 did, and then we'll have to suffer the consequences... Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of the past are due to repeat those mistakes in the future.
I heard that you don't in fact pay dues for 'religious' reasons.
You really think that the union or company is going to agree to a contract that puts us out of business in two years. You're nuts. Smisek is not shy about accepting a 35% raise, while we haven't had araise in almost ten years.
Please don't lump me into your 'we're not worth it' mindset. I want one huge raise!
10-16-2010, 02:29 PM
#24
HOSED BY PBS AGAIN
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,713
Originally Posted by furloughforlife
Originally Posted by iahflyr (over on "common ground")
..........I'm not sure which one of you two dumbasses is worse. After seeing quotes like these, we're the ones who should be concerned about this merger. EWR presumes to speak for all 4700 former CAL pilots....and IAH flyer is cool with a small raise so that we don't hurt the company again. Keep up the good work fellas!
..........I'm not sure which one of you two dumbasses is worse. After seeing quotes like these, we're the ones who should be concerned about this merger. EWR presumes to speak for all 4700 former CAL pilots....and IAH flyer is cool with a small raise so that we don't hurt the company again. Keep up the good work fellas!
Your avatar says it all: maybe you should be furloughed for life. I certainly wouldn't have any problem with it.
10-16-2010, 02:30 PM
#25
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: B737
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by iahflyr
Were you at United in 2000?? I'm really curious. They got an industry leading raise (wasn't it 48%) and were making ridiculous amounts of money. What happened there? The company was forced to give them something they couldn't afford, and what happened?
I am not always pro union. I pay my dues and I support being a unified pilot group. But I hate it when renegade people make unreasonable demands. The fact is our quality of life is the best when the company is doing well. I want the new United to do well. We make damn good pay as major airline pilots. We don't need a 30% raise on top of that just cause. I'd rather our company pay what other companies pay for the exact same job, and let our company be competitive. When the new United does well, we will benefit.
I want a raise similar to what Delta/Northwest got. I want to be compensated well, but not out of line with our biggest competitors (Delta, American, US Air). Otherwise, this contract may last for maybe 2 years just like UAL 2000 did, and then we'll have to suffer the consequences... Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of the past are due to repeat those mistakes in the future.
I am not always pro union. I pay my dues and I support being a unified pilot group. But I hate it when renegade people make unreasonable demands. The fact is our quality of life is the best when the company is doing well. I want the new United to do well. We make damn good pay as major airline pilots. We don't need a 30% raise on top of that just cause. I'd rather our company pay what other companies pay for the exact same job, and let our company be competitive. When the new United does well, we will benefit.
I want a raise similar to what Delta/Northwest got. I want to be compensated well, but not out of line with our biggest competitors (Delta, American, US Air). Otherwise, this contract may last for maybe 2 years just like UAL 2000 did, and then we'll have to suffer the consequences... Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of the past are due to repeat those mistakes in the future.
You are out of your mind and do not speak for me or any other cal pilot for that matter! I think that we deserve a lot more and I would think that you are in the miniority -- are you a child of 83-85?
10-16-2010, 02:36 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Recovering Airline Pilot
Posts: 459
Originally Posted by kc135driver
Out of pure curiosity because I don't really follow this much, did the CAL reps support Paul Rice?
10-16-2010, 02:36 PM
#27
HOSED BY PBS AGAIN
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,713
Originally Posted by kc135driver
IAH-
................. Mgmt will be trying to reduce their labor costs for the rest of time, we do not need to help them.
Best wishes-
KC
................. Mgmt will be trying to reduce their labor costs for the rest of time, we do not need to help them.
Best wishes-
KC
10-16-2010, 04:46 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 786
KC,
Don't try to reason with the likes of IAHflyer. He never has worked under a good contract. He and his peers have always been content to be told what they are worth. Regardless of the facts, horrendously bad management, 9/11, bad management, SARS, bad management, the collapse of the Japanese economy, bad management etc... people like IAHflyer will only believe what they have been told. That is, "excessive pilot wages caused UAL to nearly fail". He and a whole host of battered wives just like him, never really want to risk going there, so they are not content to just shut up, but they preach their anti-pilot scab philosophy to everyone that they have as a captive audience.
I can think of so many euphemisms, anchors, ball and chain, dead weight the rest of us will have to drag. Welcome to your new peer group.
Don't try to reason with the likes of IAHflyer. He never has worked under a good contract. He and his peers have always been content to be told what they are worth. Regardless of the facts, horrendously bad management, 9/11, bad management, SARS, bad management, the collapse of the Japanese economy, bad management etc... people like IAHflyer will only believe what they have been told. That is, "excessive pilot wages caused UAL to nearly fail". He and a whole host of battered wives just like him, never really want to risk going there, so they are not content to just shut up, but they preach their anti-pilot scab philosophy to everyone that they have as a captive audience.
I can think of so many euphemisms, anchors, ball and chain, dead weight the rest of us will have to drag. Welcome to your new peer group.
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