The new UA
10-13-2010, 08:58 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
The new UA
A buddy sent me this tonight....interesting reading, but not a lot more than that.
What The New UNITED Is Going To Look Like....
According to schedule data for this summer, the new airline would offer over 500 weekly departures from the US to Europe , just inching ahead of Delta. Delta, however, offers slightly more capacity and 63 airport-pairs compared with United’s 53.
What The New UNITED Is Going To Look Like....
So what network carrier do you get when you merge the Continental brand with United’s? The answer, it seems, is Continental’s livery, logo and colours but with United’s name. According to the ‘Transaction Fact Sheet’ explaining the merger, the two Star Alliance member airlines offer ‘complementary route networks with minimal domestic overlap and no international route overlaps’. In 2009, the two airlines combined carried over 144 million passengers on a mainline fleet of almost 700 aircraft, between 370 airports in 59 countries, with both airlines achieving a passenger load factor of over 81%.
Eight major mainland US bases
The new airline will have eight major bases spread right across the US from Los Angeles and San Francisco on the West Coast to New York and Washington on the East Coast via Denver , Houston , Chicago and Cleveland . Of these, Cleveland is the smallest.
Strong global network; more US-EU flights than any other airline
The new carrier will have a strong presence in all the major international markets with the exception of Africa , where US carriers in general have a fairly minimal presence.
Region
Destinations
Countries
Daily departures
Trans-Pacific
31
14
62
Latin American & Caribbean
72
24
156
Trans-Atlantic
34
21
74
Source: United Airlines presentation (3 May 2010)
Source: OAG Max Online for w/c 5 July 2010
The new United will serve Europe non-stop from Chicago O’Hare (seven destinations), Denver (one), Houston (four), Los Angeles (one), Newark (27), San Francisco (two) and Washington Dulles (11). The 53 routes will serve 28 airports in Europe (Delta serves 31) in 15 countries. Four routes are served with at least three daily flights. Three of these are to London Heathrow (from Chicago , Newark and Washington ) with the other route being from Washington to Frankfurt . Before the end of this year, the Continental route between Newark and Heathrow is scheduled to increase to five daily flights.
Twice as many flights as Delta to Asia
A similar analysis of non-stop flights between the US and Asia shows that the new airline is by far the biggest single carrier with twice as many flights as its nearest rival, Delta. Of United’s 27 non-stop routes to Asia , 23 are served at least daily. Nine countries are served non-stop with Japan (70 daily departures) and China (49 daily departures) accounting for nearly two-thirds of all flights.
Source: OAG Max Online for w/c 12 April 2010
Delhi, Hong Kong, Mumbai, Seoul and Sydney are other major Asian cities served by the new airline as it looks to develop its global presence further.
10-14-2010, 06:50 AM
#2
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 363
Originally Posted by oldmako
‘complementary route networks with minimal domestic overlap and no international route overlaps’.
10-19-2010, 05:33 AM
#3
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Posts: 403
If we're going to sit here and compare "contract" size:
Let's not forget who's contract ALLOWED United Airlines to ground 100 737s and subcontract their domestic flying out to the lowest bidder thus furloughing the 1400+ pilots.
Hrmm, seems like that's a BIG piece of CALs contract that would be pretty nice to have a few years ago at UA. I bet the 1400+ pilots on furlough would take CALs scope and their job back in exchange for CALs work rules, but perhaps they didn't like working at UA in the first place?
Work rules don't do anyone good if they don't have a job, do they?
If the UA/US Air Merger had gone through, how would the UA pilots feel then. Would they still be happy?
But none of this really matters since we will be combining and we will take the better of both contracts and then add a significant chunk.
Let's not forget who's contract ALLOWED United Airlines to ground 100 737s and subcontract their domestic flying out to the lowest bidder thus furloughing the 1400+ pilots.
Hrmm, seems like that's a BIG piece of CALs contract that would be pretty nice to have a few years ago at UA. I bet the 1400+ pilots on furlough would take CALs scope and their job back in exchange for CALs work rules, but perhaps they didn't like working at UA in the first place?
Work rules don't do anyone good if they don't have a job, do they?
If the UA/US Air Merger had gone through, how would the UA pilots feel then. Would they still be happy?
But none of this really matters since we will be combining and we will take the better of both contracts and then add a significant chunk.
10-19-2010, 06:28 AM
#4
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,815
Originally Posted by Zoomie
If we're going to sit here and compare "contract" size:
Let's not forget who's contract ALLOWED United Airlines to ground 100 737s and subcontract their domestic flying out to the lowest bidder thus furloughing the 1400+ pilots.
Hrmm, seems like that's a BIG piece of CALs contract that would be pretty nice to have a few years ago at UA. I bet the 1400+ pilots on furlough would take CALs scope and their job back in exchange for CALs work rules, but perhaps they didn't like working at UA in the first place?
Work rules don't do anyone good if they don't have a job, do they?
If the UA/US Air Merger had gone through, how would the UA pilots feel then. Would they still be happy?
But none of this really matters since we will be combining and we will take the better of both contracts and then add a significant chunk.
Let's not forget who's contract ALLOWED United Airlines to ground 100 737s and subcontract their domestic flying out to the lowest bidder thus furloughing the 1400+ pilots.
Hrmm, seems like that's a BIG piece of CALs contract that would be pretty nice to have a few years ago at UA. I bet the 1400+ pilots on furlough would take CALs scope and their job back in exchange for CALs work rules, but perhaps they didn't like working at UA in the first place?
Work rules don't do anyone good if they don't have a job, do they?
If the UA/US Air Merger had gone through, how would the UA pilots feel then. Would they still be happy?
But none of this really matters since we will be combining and we will take the better of both contracts and then add a significant chunk.
We deserve better and I will wait for ALL that we deserve.
10-19-2010, 05:18 PM
#6
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B737 CAPT IAH
Posts: 1,130
Originally Posted by Coto Pilot
Zoomie you have a short memory. United was in bankruptcy and abrogated their collective bargaining agreements, something Continental has done twice in the past.
Love you man, but 1113 was never, ever seen to the end. "We" voted for it. Everything good, bad or indifferent out of CBK was self imposed. That has been my position and argument from day one of BK. Many heated arguments were had back in the day on this subject with all MEC members.
There was never a court order. Had there been, the Whiteferg subliminal message of the "company will get what they want in their term sheet" was total BS.
They couldn't have retro'd back to their original term sheet. 1113 calls for the last/best offer to be considered. After refusal from the union, that would have been the baseline for an 1113 ruling by Wedoff. Not their original term sheet. The negotiations up to the point of the union declining to approve would have been the worst case answer.....in other words...what was voted in by a majority of the pilots.
Perhaps it would have been better to have what was voted for be imposed for a much shorter contract length in the end game. Now, you have a 7 year contract that is being extended again by the merger.
Who was smarter in this process. The pilots or the company. The very company that intended to decimate the A Plan from day one or the union leadership and pilot group that didn't see that as a given.
Who failed to analyze the situation and then take proper action?
Frats,
Lee
10-19-2010, 07:13 PM
#7
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 168
Originally Posted by Zoomie
If we're going to sit here and compare "contract" size:
Let's not forget who's contract ALLOWED United Airlines to ground 100 737s and subcontract their domestic flying out to the lowest bidder thus furloughing the 1400+ pilots.
Hrmm, seems like that's a BIG piece of CALs contract that would be pretty nice to have a few years ago at UA. I bet the 1400+ pilots on furlough would take CALs scope and their job back in exchange for CALs work rules, but perhaps they didn't like working at UA in the first place?
Work rules don't do anyone good if they don't have a job, do they?
If the UA/US Air Merger had gone through, how would the UA pilots feel then. Would they still be happy?
But none of this really matters since we will be combining and we will take the better of both contracts and then add a significant chunk.
Let's not forget who's contract ALLOWED United Airlines to ground 100 737s and subcontract their domestic flying out to the lowest bidder thus furloughing the 1400+ pilots.
Hrmm, seems like that's a BIG piece of CALs contract that would be pretty nice to have a few years ago at UA. I bet the 1400+ pilots on furlough would take CALs scope and their job back in exchange for CALs work rules, but perhaps they didn't like working at UA in the first place?
Work rules don't do anyone good if they don't have a job, do they?
If the UA/US Air Merger had gone through, how would the UA pilots feel then. Would they still be happy?
But none of this really matters since we will be combining and we will take the better of both contracts and then add a significant chunk.
10-20-2010, 10:57 AM
#9
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,882
Originally Posted by EWR73FO
CAL mgmt never actaully stated one time that if we did not accept concessions we would be in BK. Our illustrious mec did that for us.
10-20-2010, 04:42 PM
#10
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B737 CAPT IAH
Posts: 1,130
Originally Posted by EWRflyr
And actually, ALL the union leaders said that. Only the FAs balked at their first concessionary offer. Surprise, surprise. The company never went into bankruptcy and they managed to even order a few airplanes here and there.
I agree completely. Now if the FUPM is a lesser figure than it would be without scope recovery, are you still on board?
Just curious.
Frats,
Lee
