UAL MEC message - 11/1/10
11-01-2010, 08:23 AM
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UAL MEC message - 11/1/10
November 1, 2010
Dear Fellow Pilots,
On October 27, 2010, United management presented a comprehensive Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA) proposal to the ALPA Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC). As reported in Friday’s MEC Update, the JNC will be studying all aspects of this proposal. This proposal places on the table the company’s view of what our contract should look like, with stated room to move. As always of great interest to us, among other Sections, are Scope and Compensation.
Since United and Continental announced their plans to merge on May 3, our focus has been on achieving a JCBA that will benefit all pilots at both airlines. The JNC, which is comprised of three members from each of the UAL-MEC and CAL-MEC Negotiating Committees, has passed proposals to its company counterparts on nearly all sections of what will become the JCBA. Unfortunately, the United and Continental MECs reached a roadblock regarding compensation. While I prefer that the MEC and MEC Officers carry the burden for the pilot group on these matters, I also recognize that we have been silent long enough and the time has come to give you the facts surrounding the issue.
The root of the compensation impasse lies in the Continental MEC’s belief that if the compensation proposal is crafted in a certain manner, it may affect the Seniority List Integration (SLI) process. More particularly, the CAL-MEC and its officers have advocated that the compensation proposal be crafted a certain way – specifically with regard to which aircraft are banded together – in the hopes of “leveling the playing field” and attempting to thwart our predominantly large wide body fleet.
Continental stated before members of the UAL-MEC that the “pay banding issue was all about the SLI process.” Also, a member of the CAL-MEC issued an ultimatum – never the best approach to doing business -- to the United MEC that if there was no agreement that included pay banding suitable to the CAL-MEC, the CAL-MEC was content to wait for years without a JCBA until the United MEC relented.
In contrast, the United MEC believes negotiations for a JCBA and the SLI process should remain on separate tracks, as clearly spelled out in ALPA Merger Policy. The reason for separating JCBA negotiations and the SLI process is to avoid a repeat of the US Airways/America West merger debacle. The CAL-MEC’s rhetoric only strengthened the unity and determination of the United MEC in taking the high road in an effort to protect the SLI process and the legitimate interests of United pilots.
The Delta and Northwest pilots avoided polluting their JCBA negotiations with SLI issues during their merger by reaching an agreement, approved by ALPA, that they would not rely on their JCBA wage rates as a basis for arguing that one aircraft type should or should not be grouped with other aircraft types when constructing an integrated seniority list. The CAL-MEC has refused our repeated requests for a similar agreement.
While this has been advertised as a merger of corporate equals, that does not make it a merger of pilot groups with equal career expectations. The equities that each pilot group brings to the table are what they are, and attempts to manipulate those equities through the JCBA process are fundamentally flawed and disadvantageous to every pilot on both properties who desire the best JCBA possible.
Where we currently find ourselves is not the optimal situation, but it is not insurmountable by any means; movement has begun to put the process back on track. It is obvious that there are differences in cultures and philosophies between the two MECs. This is to be expected. It is the responsibility of both pilot groups and their representatives to work around those differences and keep our focus on achieving a JCBA that benefits ALL pilots of the combined airline. We have strong leadership within our MEC to ensure that the future of all United pilots is protected. The United MEC is prepared to utilize all tools available to address the issues that arise as provided for in ALPA Merger Policy up to and including involving the President of the Association and the Executive Council. We owe it to all the pilots of the new United to do so.
I’ve said throughout this merger process that we will not rush into an agreement or settle for an inferior contract just to meet an artificial deadline. The same can be said for anyone who tries to force our hand into accepting an agreement that does not meet the interests of all United pilots.
Together, the United and Continental MECs will find a way of shifting the focus away from each other, and return it to where it belongs: toward our company counterparts across the negotiating table.
Fraternally,
Captain Wendy Morse
Chairman, United MEC
Dear Fellow Pilots,
On October 27, 2010, United management presented a comprehensive Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA) proposal to the ALPA Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC). As reported in Friday’s MEC Update, the JNC will be studying all aspects of this proposal. This proposal places on the table the company’s view of what our contract should look like, with stated room to move. As always of great interest to us, among other Sections, are Scope and Compensation.
Since United and Continental announced their plans to merge on May 3, our focus has been on achieving a JCBA that will benefit all pilots at both airlines. The JNC, which is comprised of three members from each of the UAL-MEC and CAL-MEC Negotiating Committees, has passed proposals to its company counterparts on nearly all sections of what will become the JCBA. Unfortunately, the United and Continental MECs reached a roadblock regarding compensation. While I prefer that the MEC and MEC Officers carry the burden for the pilot group on these matters, I also recognize that we have been silent long enough and the time has come to give you the facts surrounding the issue.
The root of the compensation impasse lies in the Continental MEC’s belief that if the compensation proposal is crafted in a certain manner, it may affect the Seniority List Integration (SLI) process. More particularly, the CAL-MEC and its officers have advocated that the compensation proposal be crafted a certain way – specifically with regard to which aircraft are banded together – in the hopes of “leveling the playing field” and attempting to thwart our predominantly large wide body fleet.
Continental stated before members of the UAL-MEC that the “pay banding issue was all about the SLI process.” Also, a member of the CAL-MEC issued an ultimatum – never the best approach to doing business -- to the United MEC that if there was no agreement that included pay banding suitable to the CAL-MEC, the CAL-MEC was content to wait for years without a JCBA until the United MEC relented.
In contrast, the United MEC believes negotiations for a JCBA and the SLI process should remain on separate tracks, as clearly spelled out in ALPA Merger Policy. The reason for separating JCBA negotiations and the SLI process is to avoid a repeat of the US Airways/America West merger debacle. The CAL-MEC’s rhetoric only strengthened the unity and determination of the United MEC in taking the high road in an effort to protect the SLI process and the legitimate interests of United pilots.
The Delta and Northwest pilots avoided polluting their JCBA negotiations with SLI issues during their merger by reaching an agreement, approved by ALPA, that they would not rely on their JCBA wage rates as a basis for arguing that one aircraft type should or should not be grouped with other aircraft types when constructing an integrated seniority list. The CAL-MEC has refused our repeated requests for a similar agreement.
While this has been advertised as a merger of corporate equals, that does not make it a merger of pilot groups with equal career expectations. The equities that each pilot group brings to the table are what they are, and attempts to manipulate those equities through the JCBA process are fundamentally flawed and disadvantageous to every pilot on both properties who desire the best JCBA possible.
Where we currently find ourselves is not the optimal situation, but it is not insurmountable by any means; movement has begun to put the process back on track. It is obvious that there are differences in cultures and philosophies between the two MECs. This is to be expected. It is the responsibility of both pilot groups and their representatives to work around those differences and keep our focus on achieving a JCBA that benefits ALL pilots of the combined airline. We have strong leadership within our MEC to ensure that the future of all United pilots is protected. The United MEC is prepared to utilize all tools available to address the issues that arise as provided for in ALPA Merger Policy up to and including involving the President of the Association and the Executive Council. We owe it to all the pilots of the new United to do so.
I’ve said throughout this merger process that we will not rush into an agreement or settle for an inferior contract just to meet an artificial deadline. The same can be said for anyone who tries to force our hand into accepting an agreement that does not meet the interests of all United pilots.
Together, the United and Continental MECs will find a way of shifting the focus away from each other, and return it to where it belongs: toward our company counterparts across the negotiating table.
Fraternally,
Captain Wendy Morse
Chairman, United MEC
11-01-2010, 09:10 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: IAH 320 CA
Posts: 190
Like I said, little doubt on who it was.....
Will It Be US Airways?
November 1, 2010
Pilots of Council 11 and 34,
Many of you have contacted your council officers asking what the hold-up in negotiations is. You have expressed outrage at the company, as well as the ineffectiveness of our MEC in reaching agreement on a contract, and we have heard you loud and clear. Unfortunately, your anger is misdirected, and the purpose of this update is to finally communicate what the problem has been.
To put it simply, the problem is that the Continental MEC has for months insisted on structuring Section 3 of our contract (Compensation) in such a manner as to give them an advantage in the integration of the seniority list (ISL), and they have refused to allow negotiations to progress beyond this point until we capitulate and give them their way.
To illustrate exactly what the Continental MEC is attempting to do, let us first quickly review ALPA merger policy. There are three “cornerstones” of ALPA merger policy¾career expectations, longevity, and current position¾which must all be considered in arriving at an ISL.
The joint collective bargaining agreement process should be separate and distinct from the integrated seniority list process so that one does not advantage or disadvantage either party, this in the name of transparency and fairness to all parties. At this time, it is our strong and firm belief that while the United MEC has been taking the high road in moving toward trying to achieve an industry-leading JCBA, and is doing the same regarding ISL, the Continental MEC has taken action after action to attempt to stack the deck in their favor for the ISL.
The Continental MEC has dug their heels in and refused to allow any form of compensation proposal to be passed to the company unless it is their proposal. We assure you that the UAL MEC has made good-faith gestures to the CAL MEC to keep the process moving toward what will benefit, to the maximum extent, our collective pilot groups. Many of us are saddened and frustrated by the childish tack taken by the CAL MEC. Many of us have read the rhetoric being spewed by the CAL EWR chairman, Jayson Baron, in the Magenta Line, their council publication. Captain Baron describes himself as being the one man who is single-handedly taking on the United MEC in our attempts to oppress the pilots of Continental. While such blather is counterproductive and does nothing to move the issues forward, and in fact serves to foment the seeds of disharmony and antagonism between our two pilot groups (who by the way, are going to live together for a very long time), we categorically reject Captain Baron’s assertion. We believe that the United pilots (old and new) will be proud of the way they are being represented in this matter by the UAL MEC.
We are further compelled to ask why Captain Baron points the finger at the United MEC as being the root of the problem, but fails to publish in his Magenta Line his statement¾made during a joint session of the UAL and CAL MECs in September 2010¾that if the United pilots don’t give him what he wants, he will hold up negotiations for years, forcing the United pilots to work under our current draconian pay and working conditions until we capitulate to his demands. Where we come from, these words would be more of a management tack than those of a trusted unionist brother. Captain Baron’s threatening and offensive outburst led to the UAL MEC walking out of the meeting.
There are other complicating factors that include childish behavior by the Continental master chairman, but a significant reason that we do not yet have a contract can be attributed to the refusal of the Continental MEC to allow a compensation proposal to be passed until and unless the United MEC agrees to conditions that will advantage Continental pilots in an ISL. Your seniority is not for sale at any price, and we will not succumb to conditions grounded in amateurish scare tactics and rhetoric. We believe that the United pilots, including our new brothers and sisters at Continental, expect and deserve better than this type of behavior.
We are currently employing several strategies to help resolve this conundrum, and are prepared to utilize all resources under ALPA merger policy, including appealing to the president of the Association and the ALPA National Executive Council to help move the process forward, as provided for in ALPA merger policy. Even so, the Continental MEC and master chairman have publicly stated that they will refuse to abide by ALPA merger policy if the decision goes against them. With this kind of attitude we are not optimistic about the future as it relates to our two pilot groups’ chances for making United Airlines the premier, world-class airline we believe it can and should be.
Brothers and sisters, when the Continental MEC decides to come sit at the adult table, we will welcome them with open arms and put this silly nonsense behind us.
Fraternally,
Marco Salazar, Vice Chairman, Council 11
Mike Holman, Vice Chairman, Council 34
November 1, 2010
Pilots of Council 11 and 34,
Many of you have contacted your council officers asking what the hold-up in negotiations is. You have expressed outrage at the company, as well as the ineffectiveness of our MEC in reaching agreement on a contract, and we have heard you loud and clear. Unfortunately, your anger is misdirected, and the purpose of this update is to finally communicate what the problem has been.
To put it simply, the problem is that the Continental MEC has for months insisted on structuring Section 3 of our contract (Compensation) in such a manner as to give them an advantage in the integration of the seniority list (ISL), and they have refused to allow negotiations to progress beyond this point until we capitulate and give them their way.
To illustrate exactly what the Continental MEC is attempting to do, let us first quickly review ALPA merger policy. There are three “cornerstones” of ALPA merger policy¾career expectations, longevity, and current position¾which must all be considered in arriving at an ISL.
The joint collective bargaining agreement process should be separate and distinct from the integrated seniority list process so that one does not advantage or disadvantage either party, this in the name of transparency and fairness to all parties. At this time, it is our strong and firm belief that while the United MEC has been taking the high road in moving toward trying to achieve an industry-leading JCBA, and is doing the same regarding ISL, the Continental MEC has taken action after action to attempt to stack the deck in their favor for the ISL.
The Continental MEC has dug their heels in and refused to allow any form of compensation proposal to be passed to the company unless it is their proposal. We assure you that the UAL MEC has made good-faith gestures to the CAL MEC to keep the process moving toward what will benefit, to the maximum extent, our collective pilot groups. Many of us are saddened and frustrated by the childish tack taken by the CAL MEC. Many of us have read the rhetoric being spewed by the CAL EWR chairman, Jayson Baron, in the Magenta Line, their council publication. Captain Baron describes himself as being the one man who is single-handedly taking on the United MEC in our attempts to oppress the pilots of Continental. While such blather is counterproductive and does nothing to move the issues forward, and in fact serves to foment the seeds of disharmony and antagonism between our two pilot groups (who by the way, are going to live together for a very long time), we categorically reject Captain Baron’s assertion. We believe that the United pilots (old and new) will be proud of the way they are being represented in this matter by the UAL MEC.
We are further compelled to ask why Captain Baron points the finger at the United MEC as being the root of the problem, but fails to publish in his Magenta Line his statement¾made during a joint session of the UAL and CAL MECs in September 2010¾that if the United pilots don’t give him what he wants, he will hold up negotiations for years, forcing the United pilots to work under our current draconian pay and working conditions until we capitulate to his demands. Where we come from, these words would be more of a management tack than those of a trusted unionist brother. Captain Baron’s threatening and offensive outburst led to the UAL MEC walking out of the meeting.
There are other complicating factors that include childish behavior by the Continental master chairman, but a significant reason that we do not yet have a contract can be attributed to the refusal of the Continental MEC to allow a compensation proposal to be passed until and unless the United MEC agrees to conditions that will advantage Continental pilots in an ISL. Your seniority is not for sale at any price, and we will not succumb to conditions grounded in amateurish scare tactics and rhetoric. We believe that the United pilots, including our new brothers and sisters at Continental, expect and deserve better than this type of behavior.
We are currently employing several strategies to help resolve this conundrum, and are prepared to utilize all resources under ALPA merger policy, including appealing to the president of the Association and the ALPA National Executive Council to help move the process forward, as provided for in ALPA merger policy. Even so, the Continental MEC and master chairman have publicly stated that they will refuse to abide by ALPA merger policy if the decision goes against them. With this kind of attitude we are not optimistic about the future as it relates to our two pilot groups’ chances for making United Airlines the premier, world-class airline we believe it can and should be.
Brothers and sisters, when the Continental MEC decides to come sit at the adult table, we will welcome them with open arms and put this silly nonsense behind us.
Fraternally,
Marco Salazar, Vice Chairman, Council 11
Mike Holman, Vice Chairman, Council 34
11-01-2010, 09:55 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 165
I knew the compensation section was in big trouble when the CAL MEC wanted UAL payrate for the A319 band to pay 70 seat rj rates. They proposed an actual paycut for current airbus pilots at UAL. What are they smokin?
Last edited by 30west; 11-01-2010 at 09:57 AM. Reason: Spelling
11-01-2010, 10:16 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,253
Union lawyer speak puts me to sleep almost as fast as the tax code, but I have one simple question since DAL-NWA was brought up. Why does DAL pay exactly the same for the 747 as they do for The Triple? I'm not asking this to start a fight. I just would like to know why they worked things out over there, but we are headed down the road of Cablevision-News Corp...
11-01-2010, 10:26 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: IAH 320 CA
Posts: 190
The DAL-NWA groups came to an agreement that the JCBA pay rates for the aircraft would not be looked at when deciding the SLI.
Apparently, according to the update, suggestions of a similar arrangement between UA and CA have been quashed.
Apparently, according to the update, suggestions of a similar arrangement between UA and CA have been quashed.
11-01-2010, 10:42 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,253
Originally Posted by Flyguppy
The DAL-NWA groups came to an agreement that the JCBA pay rates for the aircraft would not be looked at when deciding the SLI.
Apparently, according to the update, suggestions of a similar arrangement between UA and CA have been quashed.
Apparently, according to the update, suggestions of a similar arrangement between UA and CA have been quashed.
You know what, I'll just do what I've been doing for the last 5 years. Fly my trip, get bent over by PBS, and hope it will get better one day. Based on the performance of ALPA I best not hold my breath...
11-01-2010, 10:43 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 111
Originally Posted by 30west
I knew the compensation section was in big trouble when the CAL MEC wanted UAL payrate for the A319 band to pay 70 seat rj rates. They proposed an actual paycut for current airbus pilots at UAL. What are they smokin?
And OMG, Im like so offended that the UAL folks put this information out publicly.
Its funny how some Magenta line for a CAL council stating the strengths of our company riled everyone up. Then this dribble comes out publicly calling out another MEC as the cause of the problem. Obviously there are two sides besides the CAL MEC feels the same way about the UAL MEC.
Its just politics dudes. Get over it. If you dont have the stomach for it, dont whine about it here.
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