Originally Posted by chuckyt1

We need to accept the fact that very few people will be happy with the ISL. Once we do that, we can work towards an industry leading contract.

Nothing, I repeat, nothing at this point should have anything to do with the ISL. All of our energy should be directed at the JCBA.

Is banding payrates industry leading? If so, band them. If not, don't.

It's the classic CLR/CRM argument. It's not about who's right, it is about what's right.

Originally Posted by SKMarz

I completely agree. Now is there anyway to get UAL and CAL MECs to see it that way?

Originally Posted by Sunvox

SK,


You are right. Sleep well knowing you couldn't have done anything different, and deep down everyone knows you're right. Plus here's a small bonus, if we ever fly together I'm buying all the beers


Joe Peck - 164511

Originally Posted by SKMarz

IMO, there is one major difference when looking at this SLI...UAL pilots were absolutely furloughed to pave the way for this merger, that is a fact. Whether it will be treated as a fact when the time comes and how this will be viewed by an arbitrator, no one really knows.

This key difference is the thing that bugs me most when I'm told UAL furloughees deserve to be stapled, that we had no career expectations. Thanks for that pearl of wisdom, but if weren't for this merger, I wouldn't have been furloughed. While it's true, there would have been some furloughs (just like there were at CAL), it never would have gone as deep as it did. It irks me that so few people at CAL are even willing to acknowledge how it went down, and yet, when the final furloughs were announced at UAL, some CAL folks chimed in on this very board "so now the merger?" So clearly, at the time, some folks understood that the stage was set. Why is it so hard to admit it now?

No, no one is blaming CAL pilots for the plot, (or the merger) that blame clearly falls on management's doorstep, but why is it so hard to admit that many UAL furloughees were sacrificial lambs? And seriously, if I have to hear one more time how eager and excited UAL folks were for this merger to happen, I just might puke. Why don't you ask the 1437 that question?

When it comes down to it, I'm not going to sweat what the SLI ends up looking like, it will be as it will be and it will probably look like a staple, oh well, that's life. But will someone please tell me why folks can't admit that is how it went down?

When, and if, I'm ever back in the cockpit at UAL, and I find myself flying with former CAL folks, I can assure you I will never be resentful, bitter or crappy to you, you did not create this mess. Having said that, a little empathy on your part goes a long way.

Originally Posted by A320fumes

I sincerely believe that UAL cut it ranks to be a more attractive Merger target for USAirways or United or anyone else that would merge with them. That's sad, but the writing has been on the wall for a long time and I have to question why anyone would continue to work for a company who's sole goal has been to merge for the past decade? What Tilton did to UAL was terrible, but you can't recoup what Tilton stole from you from working CAL pilots. I also might Puke when another UAL pilot tries to justify placing a furloughed 1999 UAL hire above a working 2005 CAL Captain. Is UAL so superior to CAL that being unemployed @ UAL is better than working @ CAL? Even with your 70 seat rj's, decimated payrates and 1450 out of work pilots? I too remember what a GREAT airline UAL was in 2000, but you guys really need to take a look at what kind of Airline UAL was on May 2, 2010. I know it's not your fault, I know it sux, but having a job should count for something more than being furloughed...even if it's only a CAL job. I just hope that when all is said and done, everyone has a job and we continue to advance on the huge wave of retirements on the horizon.

Originally Posted by A320fumes

I sincerely believe that UAL cut it ranks to be a more attractive Merger target for USAirways or United or anyone else that would merge with them. That's sad, but the writing has been on the wall for a long time and I have to question why anyone would continue to work for a company who's sole goal has been to merge for the past decade? What Tilton did to UAL was terrible, but you can't recoup what Tilton stole from you from working CAL pilots. I also might Puke when another UAL pilot tries to justify placing a furloughed 1999 UAL hire above a working 2005 CAL Captain. Is UAL so superior to CAL that being unemployed @ UAL is better than working @ CAL? Even with your 70 seat rj's, decimated payrates and 1450 out of work pilots? I too remember what a GREAT airline UAL was in 2000, but you guys really need to take a look at what kind of Airline UAL was on May 2, 2010. I know it's not your fault, I know it sux, but having a job should count for something more than being furloughed...even if it's only a CAL job. I just hope that when all is said and done, everyone has a job and we continue to advance on the huge wave of retirements on the horizon.

Originally Posted by kc135driver

Fumes-

I know you are trying to diplomatically state your opinion without stepping on toes, which I respect. However, status is temporary, career expectations are not. I guess following your logic one should just leave an airline when the times get rough and if not than they deserve a screw job SLI?

KC