CAL "A" Plan
 

All,

Looking for ballpark info on your frozen plan. What percentage of CAL pilots have a benefit, and how many don't?

What are the ranges of benefits? Just trying to compare to PBGC amounts.

Thanks!

I know there are a few thousand of us that DO NOT have one, and I don't know what percentage of guys have one. Having the A plan frozen is the reason I hear most often for the gummers sticking around past age 60. No complaints from me or most people about the B plan (except I'd like to see a higher contribution % by the company). 401k is okay, I like the Roth option. No matching though...

My SWAG is that about 2/3 have a frozen A plan with the amounts ranging from next to nothing to the high six digits.

If you have an A Plan you might hope to convert it to cash. I wouldn't want to have any kind of IOU from this corporation.

A '99 hire has about $50K lump sum available. It goes down from there.

What would the lump sum (high and low estimates) amount be for a CAL 1985 hire?

Thanks

Enough for us bottom thirders to say, "Get the heck out already!"

Before or after Contract '02? According to the web site run by the brokerage house, I had about a $1.2 million lump-sum entitlement before the concessionary contract; about $625,000 now.

But let's not use 1985 as a reference year; that could be a potential distraction. Nobody got retirement credit for "those years."

The A Plan started in 1987. CAL was non-union then, so obviously it didn't come into existence because because it was negotiated. Assuredly, Lorenzo didn't give it to his guys out of the goodness of his heart.

Instead, it started by mandate of the Bankruptcy Court. The fact of the matter is that while the 1983 bankruptcy was a disaster for the employees, it wasn't even a good deal for the corporation. Lorenzo agreed to repay secured creditors (and some classes of unsecured creditors) 100 cents on the dollar, which is not a great achievement in debt shedding. He also had to convert all the equity in the other preexisting retirement plans into annuities and pay them out. Thus, the old CAL and TI guys got annuities payable upon their eventual retirement, and most of those plans were pretty close to being fully funded.

The judge set a deadline for resumption, or to be more exact, creation, of a new defined benefit plan for the employees still working--all employees, not just pilots. That's how the Continental Airlines Retirement Plan (CARP) got started in 1987. Later, the pilot's portion was split off, and thus the term "A-Plan" came into existence. In Lorenzo's time, it was no skin off his nose, because Day 1 of entitlement occurred toward the end of his term at Texas Air. But it did, indeed, become a "burden" for the company decades later. That led to Contract '02, but that's another story.

Depends on many factors but I would reasonably guess between 550,000 to 750,000 lump sum.

My statement says I get $1.54 per month when I retire at age 60. I carry the statement in my flight bag because no one believes me. :eek:

Damn....That should be good for a "Tall Bold w/ Room" at Starbucks in Terminal C (employee discount factored in that is).

At least you got that going for you.

Let me guess. Class of June 2001?

Do pilots over age 60 do better or worse in the A-plan if they stay up to age 65?

Thanks

Lot of good that will do you at age 60, huh? Can barely get a cup of morning go-go juice for that price today.

I don't know for sure since I am an after the A-plan hire, but I flew with a guy who kind of explained the whole thing to me. He seemed to indicate that after around age 62 and a couple of months it actually hurts a guy to work longer. (If that is the case, we have quite a few dumb pilots working past 62 here. Then again, many of them are scabs so we aren't talking intellectual giants, either.)

Can someone who understands all this better confirm and explain this?

EWRflyr,

Thanks for the info. What you explained is exactly what I was wondering. I heard the same thing about the "hit" if a pilot stays past 62.5.

I was wondering how much of a hit it is and if they are sticking around for the "possible" retro pay, equity, and may a year of higher wages to offset the "hit".

Thanks again.

There's a point I think where the lump sum may peak, sometime after 60 and before 65, so in that sense it may hurt. However the reason people continue working past that peak is because no matter when you take the lump sum, retiring early instantly stops an annual income stream of $175K or so. That's what most can't afford to give up even if it means some degradation of the A Plan lump sum.

I believe its a reduction in payout due to your longevity from the actuarial tables being used to calculate your annuity or lump sum from the A plan.

Yeah, even those pilots who "aren't intellectual giants" can figure that out. There are also other benefits, such as health insurance, that stop when you retire before you reach the age to qualify for Medicare.

Wow. When were you hired?

Darn. When did that change? Guess I better start saving. :rolleyes:

Was trying to find that change in my contract, too. :rolleyes:

The CAL "medical bridge" between age 60 and 62 is alive and found in Section 27, Part 6. Sick bank time can be used to cover the monthly retiree medical premium until Medicare kicks in. Pilots retiring before 59 1/2 and want this bridge coverage must give 6 months early retirement notice before they leave. Just most guys are working beyond age 60 now so we don't hear about this bridge talk very often.

IMHO, I don't think this section will survive into the JCBA. Heck, I don't think our sick bank system will make it untouched into the JCBA. Too much money at stake for the company not to go after. Use it now or lose it. Just ask any NWA pilot about their sick bank after merger.