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UAL Capt in DEN (December-2010)

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UAL Capt in DEN (December-2010)

Old 04-11-2011, 04:56 AM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by Lambourne View Post

I am willing to give it a try here at UAL. But from the responses of the guys here that feel they were born with Silver Captains Bars attached it probably won't happen.

See, that's the problem right there. You guys wear silver bars. If you had gold, then the CSRs would show more respect!




(And yes, this is TIC.) But, it seems to me that UAL has fostered and encouraged a system of animosity between the different employee groups that goes beyond what other airline managements have been able to do.
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Old 04-11-2011, 07:43 AM
  #152  
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Lambourne,etal. You are using the "old" model of looking for "pilot error" when the terms, "he should have.....If only he had......,Why didn't he......,he didn't see.......,they failed to..." etc., are used. We as professional pilots hate it when the cause of an accident is only attributed to pilot error. And I see the same here in many of your arguements. By using those terms, we see it as a defense mechanism in that we would never do something like that, both flying and personally. And Lambourne, from all your posts, it appears to me that you are looking to put blame squarely on the captain.

Instead take a look at what precipitated his response and the response of the CSR. First of course has UAL fostered an atmosphere of mistrust and contempt between the different working departments? Was there a fatigue issue involved with both individuals? Has this CSR and has the captain had issues with each others' departments in the past? ETC, ETC

But again, by saying this captain should have, or should have seen, or why didn't he......we are no more finding the root of this issue than old style accident investigators. IMHO, this should be taken to the highest levels of management, with ALPA, as an example of where the employee group is these days and how it affects the operation (or should we say, the bottom line). Smells of "United Breaks Guitars".

Lambourne, with all due respect, it appears to me you would make the perfect company accident investigator. " Let's see, how did the pilots screw up....yep, pilot error like I thought. Investigation complete...let's go have coffee. But first, we better go change some SOPs, and procedures so our pilots won't screw up again, and it won't be our fault because we have SOPs to prevent that."

Professor Sydney Decker, The Field Guide to Understanding Human Error "Your charter in understanding human error is to find out why things happened the way they did. What you think should have happened or could have happened instead is, for all intents and purposes, irrelevant."

Last edited by Skyone; 04-11-2011 at 07:53 AM.
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Old 04-11-2011, 08:40 AM
  #153  
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As a concerned passenger... why are pilots
payed so little? I think pilots should be paid
very well concidering what they do.
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Old 04-11-2011, 01:13 PM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by Chris66 View Post
As a concerned passenger... why are pilots
payed so little? I think pilots should be paid
very well concidering what they do.

FYI, you will never have a future in airline management!!
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Old 04-11-2011, 05:58 PM
  #155  
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I think all CSR's should be trained by companies like Cathay. We should ship all of them over there, and six months later we would get them back being courteous, friendly and having a respect for authority.
But of course somebody has to foot the bill for that, so it's not gonna happen.
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:22 AM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by Chris66 View Post
As a concerned passenger... why are pilots
payed so little? I think pilots should be paid
very well concidering what they do.
I thought you had to be an airline pilot to register here. But I can't help but agree obviously with Chris66.
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:54 PM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by Lambourne View Post
Guys will go out of their way to avoid eye contact. They get on their soapbox in ops and tend to alienate people around them as they expound on a tangent that is usually wrong or severely misguided.
I know what you mean about soap boxes and getting off on tangents. Look at what this tool bag posted in response to a guy that said he flew with Capt Rood and liked him:

Originally Posted by Lambourne View Post
Yup that's no misprint. The guy compared a pilot who enjoyed flying with Rood, to a person who likes Charles Manson. What a tool shed eh?

Originally Posted by Lambourne View Post
Maybe we need to hire these guys hookers or get them boxer one size larger?

L
Good idea. Nothing like staying on topic...and off those tangents.

Carl
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Old 04-12-2011, 04:54 PM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by Lambourne View Post
Glad to know the Capts version wasn't one sided......
L

Definitely not one sided. As I said an earlier post, personalities always play into these things.

This Capt may very well be all you say. I don't know. Yeah, I'd love to read the indictment. It is one of those situations that unless you where there, you really have no idea of what really went on.

I just lean towards the innocent until proven guilty stance.

Having said that, we've all met bad Capt's and CSRs.

For instance, we used to have a CSR renowned for not putting SA's on board last minute in ORD. Too much work for this particular CSR. Capt I was flying with tried to emphasize how important it was to ensure our fellow employees got on board given the standby list and the fact seats showed open in Unimatic when we checked in.

I think it was 5 minutes prior to push, CSR came down to ask to close the door. Capt asked how many open seats, CSR said 10 or so. Capt asked about SAs. CSR replied no time. Capt reached up as the CSR turned away, turned off FAC 1, ECAM ding. Capt said oops MX problem, now you have time. I'm going to the jetbridge to call SAMC. Load the SAs and I'll let you know when we're ready to go. We pushed 5 late....that would still be DOT on time. BTW, we were 15 under flight time due to winds to begin with and got in early.....

Now, those are the mentors I liked at UAL. Capt didn't get into a ****ing contest with the CSR. Just controlled the situation.

BTW, thought the CSR was going to stroke out as the Capt walked past him to the jetbridge phone........priceless!

Lee
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Old 04-12-2011, 05:10 PM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by Lambourne View Post
You obviously don't work for UA. We get a total ZFW, a MAC and trim on ACARS. As far as individual LD3 weights we don't have that broken down. We don't know where each LD3 is located nor do we have a resource to adjust the location.

So telling the ramp to move containers would be unwise and ILLEGAL unless you coordinated with CLP on what needed to be moved. For without coordination with those with the W&B computer you could be moving the CG out of limits. Our process is FAA approved, deviation from that requires more than a "hey move that can, hold that one off and put those in the bulk". You might be directing bags to be boarded that haven't cleared the Positive Bag Match.

L
L,

Didn't follow the thread to how we got here. Having said that, the AB FMGC had the ability to tell you what it thought the aircraft gross weight was based on alpha input through the ADR.

Out of boredom, I used to compare the weights off ACARS with the computer after level off. Seemed that a plus or minus 4000lb wasn't uncommon. Having said that, there were times that LP was pretty much spot on.

In the big scheme of things, what is 4000 pounds, a knot or two. Plus, if your flying the PFD, all is well.

Measure with a micrometer, mark it with a grease pencil, cut it with an axe.....

Frats,
Lee
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Old 04-12-2011, 05:17 PM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by LeeFXDWG View Post
L

Definitely not one sided. As I said an earlier post, personalities always play into these things.

This Capt may very well be all you say. I don't know. Yeah, I'd love to read the indictment. It is one of those situations that unless you where there, you really have no idea of what really went on.

I just lean towards the innocent until proven guilty stance.

Having said that, we've all met bad Capt's and CSRs.

For instance, we used to have a CSR renowned for not putting SA's on board last minute in ORD. Too much work for this particular CSR. Capt I was flying with tried to emphasize how important it was to ensure our fellow employees got on board given the standby list and the fact seats showed open in Unimatic when we checked in.

I think it was 5 minutes prior to push, CSR came down to ask to close the door. Capt asked how many open seats, CSR said 10 or so. Capt asked about SAs. CSR replied no time. Capt reached up as the CSR turned away, turned off FAC 1, ECAM ding. Capt said oops MX problem, now you have time. I'm going to the jetbridge to call SAMC. Load the SAs and I'll let you know when we're ready to go. We pushed 5 late....that would still be DOT on time. BTW, we were 15 under flight time due to winds to begin with and got in early.....

Now, those are the mentors I liked at UAL. Capt didn't get into a ****ing contest with the CSR. Just controlled the situation.

BTW, thought the CSR was going to stroke out as the Capt walked past him to the jetbridge phone........priceless!

Lee
Lee,

Your Captain is now my hero! Great post.

The Oscar
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