UAL/DAL Contract 2K/Southwest Pay Comparison
#11
Gets Weekends Off
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#15
Gets Rolled on the Reg.
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Posts: 274
Without "snapbacks," your basis for negotiating and settlement are three things...where your existing contracts are, where the industry contracts are and where they're going, and, what the economy's doing.
Sorry, not my idea nor necessarily my position. It comes right out of Herndon and the US Government (NMB). Been there, taken the classes (and a few others).
Sorry, not my idea nor necessarily my position. It comes right out of Herndon and the US Government (NMB). Been there, taken the classes (and a few others).
manipulated to take forced, borderline criminal, wage cuts overseen by the court.
To say that our current wages should hinge on those manipulated numbers is like saying after
the mob has been removed, you'll now give the mob deduction to some other group which makes it ok.
The wages were not negotiated, they were forced, and I'll strike over that alone.
Just can't believe guys are willing to give themselves paycuts from C2K because of the corrupt bankruptcy forced deals.
Don't doubt Herndon/NMB see it the way you said, but I will not support nor vote for that line of thinking or those numbers.
Have to agree with Regular Guy, Mr. 1257. This chart is utterly useless for the masses, which is the focal point of any discussions. You chart is an outlier. i have an MBA in Finance and can tell you that, i may understand this but doesn't mean i can explain it's validity or applicability. Thanks for the work though. Straight pay comparison would be best.
Is that what capitalism has come to? If I can invalidate our agreement due to bankruptcy, I can take whatever I want?
Can the bank use bankruptcy to validate taking your home because the sale of it will allow the bank to exit bankruptcy?
That's basically what happened with the pensions and it was so bad they changed the bankruptcy code afterwards.
I really don't care if you guys want to call it present wage + xx% or C2K + x%, my point is the final compensation should be back at pre-bankruptcy numbers. Period.
Think about it, if you want less than C2K, you are voting to give yourself
a paycut with a healthier current company, from the previous better contract with a weaker company.
Iow you're asking to pay yourself less now than in 2001, while the present company is healthier and more profitable than it was in 2001.
I will vote NO loud and clear for any concession to the Contract 2000 agreement.
That includes scope, work rules and pay. It really saddens me to see people lower their expectations through being abused.
It's time to take it back. This merger, to being the largest airline in the world, easily has the synergies and justifies doing so.
Pay up now UAL mgmt.
Last edited by 1257; 07-06-2011 at 04:40 PM.
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,071
I know everybody likes to "cheerlead" on these types of blog boards but without "snapbacks" negotiated in each contract...good luck.
Without "snapbacks," your basis for negotiating and settlement are three things...where your existing contracts are, where the industry contracts are and where they're going, and, what the economy's doing.
Sorry, not my idea nor necessarily my position. It comes right out of Herndon and the US Government (NMB). Been there, taken the classes (and a few others).
Without "snapbacks," your basis for negotiating and settlement are three things...where your existing contracts are, where the industry contracts are and where they're going, and, what the economy's doing.
Sorry, not my idea nor necessarily my position. It comes right out of Herndon and the US Government (NMB). Been there, taken the classes (and a few others).
#17
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#18
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Posts: 437
#19
You have to ask yourself why are there so many regional pilots that don't realize how it used to be? Perhaps if WE the major carriers had not given so much scope relief there wouldn't be so many of THEM. With the greater number of THEM the negotiating bar was lowered on US.
I would love to see a big raise. However, to even believe that ALPA would be negotiating on C2K rates from the UAL contract is absurd. That contract was not sustainable the day it was signed. In that situation we had a leader in Jim Goodwin that was a bozo and was painted into a corner by Dubo. ALPA was using the strong arm tactics that had worked in the past and it was successful in getting Goodwin to basically sign anything to get the contract in place. However, if you go back and read the analyst reports after the contract it was evident the contract did not make financial sense to the corporation.
In my opinion that will be the last big win ALPA ever achieves. The game has changed and the new leaders of the airlines don't believe ALPA is relevant and they will work around via the court system in any manner they need to achieve their goals.
ALPA has lost its rudder. Time to rethink our representation. Bring it in house and let ALPA represent the RJ's groups. The conflict of interest by ALPA is huge and the only way to assure our future is to take it into our own hands.
#20
The wages were not negotiated, they were forced, and I'll strike over that alone.
Just can't believe guys are willing to give themselves paycuts from C2K because of the corrupt bankruptcy forced deals.
I will vote NO loud and clear for any concession to the Contract 2000 agreement.
Here is my question to you. If the contract is signed and passed by a majority and it doesn't meet your own personal threshold for greatness, are you willing to walk away? If you say you are not going to hold to your guns walk to walk if the majority doesn't agree with you, then please step away from the keyboard.
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