"avoid like the plague"
 

Posted on Get Rich Slick

Avoid United Airlines and Continental Like the Plague! Get Rich Slick

The pain and anguish on the faces of passengers has become all too familiar for me this week as I’ve been on three United/Continental flights and been delayed three times; it’s sad but it presents an opportunity for profit.

The common theme to United’s problems seems to be computer glitches but dropping morale can’t be helping any.

I recently witnessed someone get downgraded from first to economy undoubtedly because of a computer glitch.* I have also recently witnessed flight attendants helping themselves to first class.* I can’t quite make out that one except to think that many will get laid off after the merger so why not splurge?

I am so confident that United is going to fail with this merger that I’m going to buy puts on the airline.*** With the recent market meltdown today, it’s probably not the best day to do it but January 2012 put options look juicy.

It is a real tragedy because I remember a few years ago, Continental won various JD Edwards awards and now they win the big turd award.

To top off the miserable experience, we have to sit through the smug ******** face of Jeff Smisek telling us the great progress they’re making painting airplanes.* Really Jeff?* You are proud of your major accomplishment of painting airplanes?* Well maybe your crack team can start on the computer systems next.

Jeff, you better stay in your ivory tower because if you show your face at any airport, I’m pretty sure you’re going t get slapped and maybe have your neck wrung Bart Simpson style.** I’ll keep you posted on those UAL put options…

Hey, the airplanes are looking GOOD!

[QUOTE=APC225;1034711]Posted on Get Rich Slick

Avoid United Airlines and Continental Like the Plague! Get Rich Slick

/QUOTE]

I don't think I would look to a "blogger" with a title of "Get Rich Slick" for my investment advice nor would I take his word for what is happening at an airline based on his 3 flights.

"FA's helping themselves to First Class". Could it have been the FA crew meals that he saw them eating?

UAL has its issues but this same article could be written about almost any carrier.

The interwebs are filled with these investment geniuses. Most are self anointed and are absolute failures at what they do. But hey they know airlines....

L

While I don't disagree with his assessment of UAL, he's clearly a moron. Anyone who makes financial decisions out of anger is going to lose their arse.

Flight attendants helping themselves to first class? Uhhh.... what's he talking about?

Probably chowing down on leftovers.

They eat my meals all the time. What? You guys at UAL don't have that problem? You're in for a real treat.

Beware the "Experts"
 

How about JD Powers? (JD Edwards is/was a software company).

Don't think the company will fail, but he does hit some salient points in that the system does not exist to give passengers a pleasant travel experience, where they feel they get their value for their money.

It exists to make the shareholders and the Board of Directors wealthy.

I'm guessing a SLI and SOC are at least two years away.

Nothing that a good steak dinner, and expensing it cant fix!

J

You're right. What credibility does a guy like this have. Problem for UAL is that a lot of people are infrequent fliers. Maybe once every few years even. But they go and tell their circle of family and friends their experience and next thing they know is people avoid UAL.CAL when they can.

I thought maybe this thread was about a new PBS avoid weighting system :D

AVOID (Like the plague): CCS, BOG, Work (weekly) Sat/Sun

I have seen a drastic drop in customer service over the last two months. I witnessed it from the passenger side after a busy weekend of pass travel. Each time, the gate agents told us this is the "United Way" and just roll their eyes. Shut the door with 15 minutes to go no matter what passengers are checked in and running down the concourse from a late inbound. I, as captain, had to stand in the jetway/terminal door as an agent tried to shut it saying "its the United way now with customer service!". An older man was hurrying down the concourse and couldnt keep up with the family. Their inbound was late and the family ran ahead to get to our flight. I told them I wouldnt leave without their dad. The agent was calling on the radio, "captain says he will take the delay". It was still over 5 minutes before departure time and the rest were boarded.

All they care about is getting the door shut now. The quotes are "There is always another flight". When asked about the last flight of the night they say there is another flight in the morning.

It is sad to see the rapid decompression of the airline that had good ontime an good customer service. On multiple occasions after the merger, passengers would come up to me and say how sad they were because of their experiences on both airlines and didnt want service to fail.

Well it has. Just like when bean counters get in charge of airlines. Pretzels go away because the other guy doesnt give pretzels. This is lost and that. Pretty soon its a low-class Southwest cattle car without the stupid jokes. Sad to watch.

This is how things were done before Gordon got here. He specifically was quoted as saying that if you shut the door on enough people, you wont have people to fly on time anywhere. They stopped the BS policy. Especially when we dont have enough available seats to help people on the next flights and it rolls downhill. I also assume that it doesnt count in involuntary boardings when passengers are denied on connecting flights even when it is the airline's fault for getting them to the hub late.

Sorry you have to experience this but, it is the United way. I could go into a litany over the events and comments I have witnessed over the years. I however, am trying to have happy thoughts right now. I will say when you think you have seen it all, stand by, there's more around the corner.

If it the "united way" I thought that cal people are running the show at flight ops, mx, customer service and flight attendents, then it sounds a lot like the continental way, or just the airline way as I have seen the same type service from dal amd amr.

It has been a very obvious degradation of quality within the last two months... whatever the cause. Our service, morale and maintenance in the last decade were not even close to what is happening now.

Take it easy, its not a dig at the pilots. Im sure you werent happy working for a such a mess over the last decade just as CAL pilots werent happy working for the mess before that.

I was attempting to get on a flight to a tropical destination last week. Last flight of the day. There were connecting passengers from Frankfurt who were running down the concourse over ten minutes before departure. The hugged each other, out of breath, and high fived as they handed their tickets to the agent. The agent denied them boarding and gave their seats to some standbys that were standing there at the gate. It was very tense. I was aware of their connection before the Franfurt flight even landed, so I know the gate was aware. That never used to happen.

Like I said I thought cal has taken over most of the operation from what I have seen or read. I fully expected the service to get better if the cal folks are running the show. That being said I have seen things just about the same as before not really better not worse but hey that is just the small picture in which I operate.

I was not trying to ake a dig at anyone I thought it was a legitimate questions since cal has taken over the opertaion at the top of most of the operation. The moral I assume is just from the merger dragging out longer than most expected.

It seems management has been adopting the worst practices from both sides to make the worst possible airline. They must have overslept and missed the class in business school when they taught it was the best practices from each entity that should be adopted.

What he describes is United's view of schedule integrity. AMR's way, DAL's way, or Cindy Lou Who's way, it really doesn't matter.

What matter's is it is simply wrong to leave people at the gate when either down line connections aren't jeopardized or it is the last flight of the evening and crew rest issues are not involved.

Are we in the business of attaining schedule metrics or conveying passengers from A to B with a modicum of service?

Agree special tracking with trying to get people from a to b and do my best to have that happen. I just laugh when I hear it is just united from an article from some ****ed off traveler. Again you might calit uniteds view but in reality cal is running a lot of this now.

When it works best is when the mid management gives the agents and the rest tools to work with and the best tool we could have that that has been taken away is communication. United has always been terrible at this when it comes to communicating between divisions, dspt to planning, routing to dspt, csr to pilots, better communication would really help. Remeber when the csr would mention a problem and all we had to do was say hey throw it on me i can make that 10 minutes up no problem.

But once again some of this had to happen before at cal as they seem to be running the show but falling back to our backwards ways.

Thx hooker you said it much better with fewer words. Agree 100%

Yea--new FOM still has the hat in it.

Everything I've seen on the United side...SUCKS! how have you let such a once great airline become such a piece of crap ? I know your gona say it was management and I agree but know one gives a crap...your ramp could care less, gate agents a'holes, you look old and miserable somebody needs to come up with a way to fire this dead weight or like the original poster said this merger is domed to fail and at the very least it will be once again from first to worstes...I made made that word up

I hope for all our sake something good comes out of this mess...

Why is it people will tell you how bad you have it and proclaim that you need to fix it? Well, here is your chance Mr. RJ pilot, instead of saying simply fire someone, why don't you put on your airline ceo hat and tell us how to really fix the problem. You sure know what the problems are, then why don't you give us a workable, viable solution to solve the problem.

I will say this about the employees of the legacy UAL, albeit at times dysfunctional, they are a family. After 9/11, I witnessed a group of people who can come together, take care of one another, and their passengers.

Back to you Mr. RJ pilot. What's your solution?

Please distance your feelings for this guy from the rest of XJT.

"know one" claims him.

I do not know XJET pilots' solution... But I have one
... Fire Smisek for cause; then bring in Greg Brenneman ... spelling? From the worst to first CAL braintrust!

This would do several important things... 1st it would raise morale ten fold, 2nd it would let the investment world know the board was serious about making the "new" United Airlines the best in the world!

Any thoughts on this idea?

Let's bring back GORDON!!!!

I vote for Pete McDonald. Started on the ramp and worked his way up. He's an ops guy and not a finance guy.

Gordon was just the cheerleader... Greg was the brains... He knew that if you took care of the employees in a service business, eg "airlines", it would be a better return on investment than any capital outlay. After Greg left things started heading in the wrong direction. At least that is my recollection of the situation.

Yes, just one...IMHO.

You could have Herb Kelleher, Gordon Bethune, and Greg Brenneman running this new United and there would still be a significant group of employees who would whine about it.

For the last 35 years there have only been two US carriers in the "legacy" category that have arguably held the best US reputation...Delta for about 20 years and Continental the next 15. United has always been big or one of the biggest, but it has rarely been viewed as the best from an industry standpoint.

The three most charismatic, smart, visionary and with the necessary gravitas, individuals I've seen in this business could not bring the new United to a best category unless they seriously started getting rid of old dinosaurs that do not have the "best" DNA as part of their genetics. This particular type of DNA doesn't magically appear based upon contracts or management. This type of DNA comes from adult personal maturity and professionalism. It certainly doesn't arise from the notion that being the "biggest" automatically makes you the "best."

God as chief couldn't get the job done unless he performed a miracle. A change at the top would not do a thing. The new United is 87,000 employees...87,000! The dinosaurs are going to have to become extinct. Old lizards aren't good for much of anything anyway except boots.

Just in case you were wondering...Truman was president when I was born. I qualify for the category. ;)

I agree with most of your response. However, I do believe it would be an important first step. The direction could not be worse under the current regime. I do hope some of the dead wood is removed.

There was a disagreement at the senior officer level about the most judicious use of available cash approaching a "softening" period (late 1990's/2000).

That dispute made it's way to the board and, unfortunately, Mr. Brenneman was on the losing side of the argument at the board level. Senior executive teams usually require loyalty and a common approach...that was the end of the team.

Yep... That is what I recall also. However, I wish Greg would have won... I think CAL would have been better off!

I agree. 87k employees with a lot of bad juju in the mix. You could put God in charge and give everyone a nice new contract, and it wouldn't be enough. Although a good leader and a nice contract would be a nice start!
It is going to take a lot of time and effort by everyone from the top down to change the mentality and behavior at a machine this large.
Kind of like our government! Oh , the irony.
I wish I would have been a business-school corporate type, they seem to do alright no matter what.

Bingo! Give them the tools and procedures to be the "best." If they refuse, won't, or can't after a few tries, show'em the door.

At 87,000 employees, it's big and cumbersome enough. Factor in the "bad juju," it becomes near untenable. There's no sense in delaying what will likely be an employee "winnowing" process (also known as the good kind of "revolving door" of change, "out with the old, in with the new," etc.) over the next several years.

I haven't decided just when I will "winnow" yet. God knows I'm old enough. ;)

Nostalgia
 

Now that you mention it, I wonder if Dave Garrett would "fit in" at Delta any more. Some of us got to work for great airline CEOs, but most of today's employees can only read about them and imagine what it was like. :(

Yes...how ironic. Both are led by Harvard elitist. :rolleyes:


How about this. "Give them the tools and procedures to be the best, and then get the ******* out of the way!"

AND, more to point.....I believe pilots define tools and procedures as an industry leading contract. Give me something to work with other than a CEO's middle finger and apologies from the CPO. I guarantee the goodwill will nearly pay for the contract cost.

That's just the thing Daytripper, IF we could ever have a CEO and management that reached across the lines and gave us something to work with, the goodwill would go a long way. In my career thus far , I have yet to see that happen. And, that many years of being pi$$$ed on makes me all the more pessimistic and downtrodden. Anyway.....I digress......

My wife and I just did a trip to Cancun on CAL passes (IAD-IAH-CUN r/t). From my perspective, the CAL S/A process at the gate was WAY worse than UAL. Maybe I feel that way because it's 'different' than what I'm used to?? At any rate, the lack of flexibility by the csr was troubling. They all seemed to be hamstrung by the info in the computer.... UAL csr's (to me) seem more agile and proactive when it comes to S/A's. I'm sure my sample size is too small to draw any real conclusions.

Sorta like saying, "with all due respect" and then saying something derogatory or insulting. I'm sure my sample size of your comments are too small to draw any real conclusions.

I'm playing with you

I have extensive experience s/a on both CAL and UAL as an employee and with buddy pass riders ... And I would say United is much better at treating their traveling employees and companion riders!