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CAL ALPA takes a stand-ignore 23 Sep CBT date

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CAL ALPA takes a stand-ignore 23 Sep CBT date

Old 09-14-2011, 08:24 AM
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Default CAL ALPA takes a stand-ignore 23 Sep CBT date

"Last week, the Grievance Committee informed you of the Company's violation of our contract in regards to the deadline for the CBT associated with the Pilot Merger Guide the Company sent out to the pilot group. In a terse reply to our request that this issue be properly addressed, Flight Operations management refused to acknowledge the controlling language in the CBA. They have decreed that there is no contractual restriction and they can set the due date whenever they want. It appears, yet again, that management is ignoring the fact we even have a contract before they make their plans. Then, when we call them on it, they attempt to “martinize” contractual language in order to fix their mistake. The language from the contract is clear:

Section 11, Part 1.5. - “Distributed Training” means training designed to be accomplished at home, at Base learning centers, or similar non-centralized locations using printed materials, computer based training (CBT), or other similar methods.

and

Section 11, Part 3.F. - A pilot will be notified electronically (CCS) at least twenty-one (21) days prior to the first day of the first month in which he is eligible to be scheduled for a CQP event, and will be notified electronically (CCS) at least fifteen (15) days prior to the first day of the month in which he becomes eligible for self-scheduled CQP training or self-directed Distributed Training. Notification will be repeated if a pilot enters his grace month without having accomplished the event.

Flight Operations management claims that since there is no "grace" month like normal annual training, this is not Distributed Training and therefore the contractual provisions don't apply. There is a clear difference between self-scheduled CQP training such as normal annual CBT training (ASR and GSR) which has a grace month, and self-directed Distributed Training which has nothing to do with annual CQP training. The contract is clear. The CBT associated with the Pilot Merger Guide cannot have a due date earlier than Oct. 31.

It is also important to note, there is no safety or regulatory reason to force pilots to rush this training. To the contrary, rushing these types of things is generally considered the antithesis to safety. The Sept. 23 deadline is not an FAA deadline. It is an artificially imposed one forced on the pilot group by management. We are left to ponder if this is being done to show the FAA progress in the single operating certificate (SOC) process. Remember, management is very incentivized toward getting SOC accomplished. There are jobs, promotions and big bonuses tied to getting it done on schedule. This is nothing but a blatant attempt by the Company to force yet another contractual violation down our throats. In any investigation of a crime, the police will tell you it's simple: follow the money. They are, in essence, bastardizing our contractual language in order to line their own pockets.

We have tried to resolve this issue with management. We discussed with them possible solutions to their violation of the contract, but the best they would offer was to not do it again. That is simply not good enough. Our CBA must mean something.

Pilots are always free to complete their training early; however, contractually, the due date for this training is Oct. 31."
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Old 09-14-2011, 11:17 AM
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Where did this come from? Haven't received it / can't find it.
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Old 09-14-2011, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Monkeyfly View Post
Where did this come from? Haven't received it / can't find it.
Blastmail.
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Old 09-14-2011, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by beeker View Post
I thought sept 23rd was for the extra pay but non qual was oct 4?
Don't really know that.

FOM says the definitive place to determine qual to fly is the Qual page in CCS. This CBT is not loaded in here so technically I don't see how the company can say you went non-qual. If you fly after the 23rd (or the 4th) and the Qual screen says you were good to go at checkin I don't see what angle they'll come from to get you.

The FAA approves the FOM, the FOM says Qual screen is definitive, Qual screen shows qualified. If they take you off a trip it will have to be paid eventually as there was no valid reason not to fly.
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Old 09-14-2011, 12:50 PM
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99% of the pilots will have it done by the 23rd. Guaranteed. Why? Because they've been led to believe that the $$$ is attached to that completion date.
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Old 09-14-2011, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by beeker View Post
There is something on my qualification page referring to the "Integration Training."

Life, What do you mean they've been led to believe there is money attached? Are you saying the company is going to go against its own pilot bulletins?
Two messages came out today.

1. Lost Qual on 4 Oct if not done. This appears to be a clarification to CPs saying it "must" be done by 23 Sep and the previous direction saying the 23rd was a "target" date. It may also be a bit of capitulation.

2. It pays one hour. But if done by the 23rd, it pays 2.4 hours. A bribe to meet a target date set by the company as they rush to get SOC.

At least they're learning. If you want us do something, it will cost you. I hope we can all understand and apply this principle going forward. No one wants to slow things down or make issues out of nothing, but if they need something outside the contract, treat us with dignity and don't ask us to do it for free.
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Old 09-14-2011, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by beeker View Post
ok just making sure I am reading all of this stuff correctly
Oct 4 is now the company's line-in-sand date for lost qual. The union says contractually it is 31 Oct. Could be interesting, but probably won't be.

Last edited by APC225; 09-14-2011 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 09-15-2011, 07:01 AM
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Guys, the original poster did not clarify that this was a CAL MEC blastmail related to the CALALPA contract provision. This is not related to the UAL pilot group unless your MEC finds something in the UALALPA contract regarding this.

Second, the CAL pilot group received a pilot bulletin which had a few interesting things:

1. Deadline for PAY is September 23rd
2. Deadline for qualification is October 4th.
3. The 777 and 756 pilots will be compensated for 2.4 hours (737 compensation is still 1 hour only) due to more information being disseminated AND ONLY IF IT IS COMPLETED BY SEPTEMBER 23RD.

Read what you wish to regarding due dates, lost qualification, pay, EXTRA pay and our contract provisions.
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Old 09-15-2011, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by EWRflyr View Post
Guys, the original poster did not clarify that this was a CAL MEC blastmail related to the CALALPA contract provision. This is not related to the UAL pilot group unless your MEC finds something in the UALALPA contract regarding this.

Second, the CAL pilot group received a pilot bulletin which had a few interesting things:

1. Deadline for PAY is September 23rd
2. Deadline for qualification is October 4th.
3. The 777 and 756 pilots will be compensated for 2.4 hours (737 compensation is still 1 hour only) due to more information being disseminated AND ONLY IF IT IS COMPLETED BY SEPTEMBER 23RD.

Read what you wish to regarding due dates, lost qualification, pay, EXTRA pay and our contract provisions.
Good summary. I thought the use of the terms CCS, CQP, and CBT made it clear that it was a CALALPA blastmail, but maybe not.
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Old 09-15-2011, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by EWRflyr View Post
Guys, the original poster did not clarify that this was a CAL MEC blastmail related to the CALALPA contract provision. This is not related to the UAL pilot group unless your MEC finds something in the UALALPA contract regarding this.

Second, the CAL pilot group received a pilot bulletin which had a few interesting things:

1. Deadline for PAY is September 23rd
2. Deadline for qualification is October 4th.
3. The 777 and 756 pilots will be compensated for 2.4 hours (737 compensation is still 1 hour only) due to more information being disseminated AND ONLY IF IT IS COMPLETED BY SEPTEMBER 23RD.

Read what you wish to regarding due dates, lost qualification, pay, EXTRA pay and our contract provisions.
I realize there is a lot of ambiguity regarding this PMG-CBT Qual, thus the thread.....

Having not done this CBT myself yet, I am standing here looking at two B756 F/O's who completed the Qual mentioned above. They BOTH are ONLY credited 1.0 under "Additional Pay" section on their Sept "Pay Screens".....NOT the 2.4 as advertised above completed prior to Sept 23rd.

The Bulletin that you cited above, "SOC-Phase 2 Comp" dated Sept 14th from the Pilot Bulletin drop-down, has been labeled "Replaced" with NO other Bulletin taking it's place as of yet???

Anyway, I am planning on calling ALPA-IAH today to see what the 'latest' is on the pay for the B777/B756 guys/gals.....1.0 vs 2.4???

Let you know what I find out if I can get some kind of answer....

***UPDATE***
Spoke with the ALPA Office in IAH regarding the "1.0 v 2.4" Pay placed on the SEPT Pay Screens under additional pay for the Phase 2 PMG CBT.

They said they were aware of this, and it 'should' read 2.4 for all B777/B756 Pilots per the 'replaced' memo under the Bulletin Drop-down. The individual that I spoke with suggested a "Pay Claim" filing would be in order for those who had been 'miscalculated' and given 1.0 vs 2.4 for those Pilot's on equipment that qualifies.

For those WB guys/gals who have completed the CBT, be sure to check your SEPT Pay Screen to make sure that you are getting what your promised!!

Last edited by SoCalGuy; 09-15-2011 at 10:46 AM.
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