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Originally Posted by Gator570
(Post 1114969)
Pierce has displayed SCAB-like behavior in stepping over the backs of the unity between the CAL & UAL pilots to claim the prize. For those who preach unity, there can be none as long as any leadership displays this behavior. That is the entire point here. The UAL pilots are not upset with their brothers and sisters gaining PS. They are upset that we did not work as a team to get it, even if it meant forgoing it for a short time. The UAL pilots would most certainly sacrifice for the benefit of the whole - we've done it before and we'll do it again.
The question at hand is will the CAL pilots join us? And if so, will you take necessary actions to rid yourselves and all of us of leadership that doesn't know how to play by these union rules? Management loves this stuff, yes. But there would be nothing for them to love if it were not for an individual such as Pierce. A leader who understood that the collective good far outweighs temporary gains will do more for unity, more for the profession, and more for himself in terms of legacy than a self-serving short gain thinker. Managements think short term. Pierce thinks short term. Are we more sophisticated than that? Gator, You are spot on with much of what you have stated. I appreciate your comments on not blaming CAL pilots, however that's been the exception on this forum. I would gladly forego my earned PS in a show of unity and leverage, if I thought ( we all would do the same). From what I read, that was suggested and no takers at the union leadership level. I dont believe the vast majority of CAL pilots are going to push to remove PIerce or " join us" just because UA folks are upset and calling for his head. Its not a matter of weakness, understanding or lack of desire for unity. I believe it has to do with we determine our elected reps and even removal, not another entity. A few months, UA attempted to recall Morse, and suspect, if it had occurred, many would have cried a "conspiracy" to divide UA, pit pilot groups and delay the JCBA. We had the same on our side as well. Both of our unions have been and are dysfunctional and have our idiots(5%) and it and they are alive and well, so to hear the constant bashing from my third cousin, whom I use to fight, just a few years ago..is useless noise. It ultimately divides more than unify. The company name is UNited, but we will not be one group, joined together until we can respect each group as a whole, both now and when we are one UNION, barrage jam the 5% that only seek to divide and have outlived their usefulness to the New United and demand accountability in your LC and MEC for their actions or lack thereof....if we look to clean our own house first, we may have a chance going forward Finally, hope both pilot groups can see through the smoke screen of this PS issue and the silence of some elected reps....much of this issue has to do with posturing for power, control and direction of the future 12K United pilot group. Believe me, their are folks both CAL and UA strategizing on their next position... |
Originally Posted by Scott Stoops
(Post 1115042)
I'm most surprised that very few are acknowledging the fact that the company paid 80:1 on a possible, maybe, "if we litigate poorly" judgment. What exactly did JP sell? What inside agreement did he make? Why would a company that fights every single grievance tooth and nail give so freely when there really is very little to gain other than discord between the two pilot groups <hint>? Who is JP's master? The uCAL pilots? Really? Just throwing questions out there that many seem to be willing to overlook. What exactly did the company buy when they agreed to pay 40 million on a 500K potential tab?
Don't know the answer to that, and unfortunately, neither do any of you. Guessing that JP will never fly the line again. Won't need to. Scott |
Originally Posted by dexim
(Post 1115156)
The uCAL pilot act as if nothing happened. Do they really think the UAL MEC will let this slide. Pierce has shown his loyalty and it's not to the CAL or UAL pilots. Pierce should do the right thing for both groups and resign.
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Originally Posted by beeker
(Post 1115185)
yawn ten characters
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Originally Posted by Slammer
(Post 1115153)
Gator, You are spot on with much of what you have stated. I appreciate your comments on not blaming CAL pilots, however that's been the exception on this forum. I would gladly forego my earned PS in a show of unity and leverage, if I thought ( we all would do the same). From what I read, that was suggested and no takers at the union leadership level. I dont believe the vast majority of CAL pilots are going to push to remove PIerce or " join us" just because UA folks are upset and calling for his head. Its not a matter of weakness, understanding or lack of desire for unity. I believe it has to do with we determine our elected reps and even removal, not another entity. A few months, UA attempted to recall Morse, and suspect, if it had occurred, many would have cried a "conspiracy" to divide UA, pit pilot groups and delay the JCBA. We had the same on our side as well. Both of our unions have been and are dysfunctional and have our idiots(5%) and it and they are alive and well, so to hear the constant bashing from my third cousin, whom I use to fight, just a few years ago..is useless noise. It ultimately divides more than unify. The company name is UNited, but we will not be one group, joined together until we can respect each group as a whole, both now and when we are one UNION, barrage jam the 5% that only seek to divide and have outlived their usefulness to the New United and demand accountability in your LC and MEC for their actions or lack thereof....if we look to clean our own house first, we may have a chance going forward
Finally, hope both pilot groups can see through the smoke screen of this PS issue and the silence of some elected reps....much of this issue has to do with posturing for power, control and direction of the future 12K United pilot group. Believe me, their are folks both CAL and UA strategizing on their next position... I suspect that very few (the 2%r's) blame the CAL pilots. I've been very clear to everyone (including my ALPA reps, Lee Moak, and MC Pierce) that I place the blame squarely on MC Pierce and the CAL MEC. I've had quite a few opportunities to interact with CAL pilots and they have all been great. Especially on a NYC layover around Christmas :D There is a fine line we need to walk. We should not allow the pilot groups to splinter or become combative because of leadership failures. The bottom line is that the pilot groups have CONTROL of our leaders! We need to ask them pointed questions and demand that they act in OUR best interest. How we get there is beyond me. Let's give the MC and MEC's time to decide on the direction that they want to lead. Then they need to communicate that clearly to the membership. Right now we feel like our 4ship is committing downrange against a gorilla package and we're not sure of the 4ship on right will execute the bracket as briefed. In the last engagement they skated early, RTB'd and drank all the beer in the bar. Fox 3;) |
Originally Posted by dexim
(Post 1115348)
If you are here trolling, I think you have found the wrong board. Is "yawn ten" a code you guys use these days? You need help son and I don't have time or the desire.
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Originally Posted by AxlF16
(Post 1115389)
Slammer,
I suspect that very few (the 2%r's) blame the CAL pilots. I've been very clear to everyone (including my ALPA reps, Lee Moak, and MC Pierce) that I place the blame squarely on MC Pierce and the CAL MEC. I've had quite a few opportunities to interact with CAL pilots and they have all been great. Especially on a NYC layover around Christmas :D There is a fine line we need to walk. We should not allow the pilot groups to splinter or become combative because of leadership failures. The bottom line is that the pilot groups have CONTROL of our leaders! We need to ask them pointed questions and demand that they act in OUR best interest. How we get there is beyond me. Let's give the MC and MEC's time to decide on the direction that they want to lead. Then they need to communicate that clearly to the membership. Right now we feel like our 4ship is committing downrange against a gorilla package and we're not sure of the 4ship on right will execute the bracket as briefed. In the last engagement they skated early, RTB'd and drank all the beer in the bar. Fox 3;) |
Originally Posted by NFLUALNFL
(Post 1115399)
First one to the white board wins, Right??
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Originally Posted by AxlF16
(Post 1115389)
How we get there is beyond me. Let's give the MC and MEC's time to decide on the direction that they want to lead. Then they need to communicate that clearly to the membership.
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Originally Posted by intrepidcv11
(Post 1113443)
Since nobody else will I'll say it: how freaking dumb was Wendy and her crew for demanding CAL pay rates on the fly?!? .
I guess when you leave out 80% of the facts it could look dumb. When you don't consider that Pierce agreed to each and every proposal, that they agreed to work as a team and back each other up, yes, that might look dumb. When you add in the truth and facts, then what it looks like is what it is. Wendy Morse was, if anything, naive (as WERE the United MEC and pilots) for assuming that Jay Pierce was a man of his word, a unionist, and could be relied upon to not step over their backs for a few pieces of silver. They assumed that Pierce would not exhibit scab-like behavior. Now what we have is the average CAL pilot getting maybe $3,000 to $5,000, a one time buy off which was a bargain for the company in terms of causing this kind of divisiveness. Pierce went right for the bait. There is ONLY one way to win this game. CALMEC and UALMEC must stand together and demonstrate in action all of the pretty things Pierce has said they would. He has demonstrated that he is incapable. I could not fault the UALMEC if they wanted to have nothing to do with him from here on out. |
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